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Transcript

[00:00:00] Jonathan Lee: Welcome to a special episode of the podcast dedicated to making you a faster cyclist, ask a cycling coach podcast presented by trainer road. It’s just myself and our CEO, Nate Pearson today. And we’re going to be talking all about adaptive training because it’s a big day, Nate. It’s launch day.

[00:00:16] Nate Pearson: It’s so exciting.

[00:00:19] Jonathan Lee: I know, I know. And the audio will sound a bit different. Nate’s in a different location today, but we are here to answer all the questions that you have about adaptive training. So if you’ve joined us live, if you’ve been to the trainer road forum, if you’ve gone on Instagram and followed trainer road, and you’ve seen us asking for questions, we’ve been compiling all of those questions, finding the best ways to answer those questions, getting all the information you need.

[00:00:39] Jonathan Lee: But of course everybody that’s joining us live. You can send in those questions that you have to the YouTube chat, and we’ll be able to answer them as we go through this. But first Nate, I know a lot of people are probably going, like I already know all about it. After training I’ve been doing. It’s awesome.

Why did we build Adaptive Training and what is it?

[00:00:53] Jonathan Lee: But there are plenty of people that have not actually started using a for training might not even know what it is, so we should probably give them the basics. Right. Um, we should describe why we built it first,

[00:01:02] Nate Pearson: right? Yeah. I, I have something else. I have to say getting on my head. I usually don’t have you so big on my screen and you look so good on, it’s just you all big advice, your life.

[00:01:12] Nate Pearson: Perfect. Very cool. It sounds like, it feels like you’re right here. Okay. So why don’t we build it out for training adaptive training, like came up, this idea has been around for a long time. Uh, back in like early 20 11, 20 12, I knew this was part of trainer road’s future. That’s why I say it’s been a long time.

[00:01:30] Nate Pearson: Like that was the vision back then to be able to do this and the, what, what we needed is a system that responds to your performance because one not everyone’s the same. So there’s a lot of studies that show like, you know, bell curve and what makes people faster. And we can make treaty plans around those, but that’s, that’s really a bell curve.

[00:01:47] Nate Pearson: Right. And if you fall in the outside, It probably isn’t the most awful way to train too, though. This is a big one. Is life happens all the time and things change, and you’re not a robot and you can’t just nail your plan all the time. And we’ve over the years in the podcast, that’s been a big part of the podcast is we’ve helped people understand what you can do in order to, to adjust that when life happens, change things, uh, but we needed it to scale and we still would have so many questions that people have.

[00:02:15] Nate Pearson: How can I change this? I, I, I missed this workout or I didn’t do well. Or I, I performed really well in this workout. How should my plan change? How should my fitness evolve and adapt to training? Isn’t direct response, but that is what can we do is as you perform, how does that then change your plan, uh, as your goals change, how does that change your plan?

[00:02:33] Nate Pearson: Uh, as life gets in the way you get sick, you travel, how does that change your plan in the future? And also though how then. Train Jonathan’s specific physiology is different than mine. Can you might respond differently to max intervals than I will. And we, I might respond differently to a 65 year old man or woman.

[00:02:50] Nate Pearson: Uh, all of those things are baked into adaptive training and that’s why we built it.

[00:02:55] Jonathan Lee: Yeah, absolutely. It’s with the exist to everything that we had in place before with plan builder and everything else, we got really good at training people, uh, making them faster and doing so within that bell curve, this allows us to extend beyond that.

[00:03:08] Jonathan Lee: But then, like you said, everybody that resides within the bell curve drifts in and out of it just because of life happening. So yeah, it allows us to be able to train people as individuals. Uh, it’s awesome. And we should talk a bit, a little bit about how it works. Um, how, w what are the basics now?

[00:03:22] Nate Pearson: Yeah, the basics are that while you work out afterwards, we have, uh, uh, machine learning, which is just, uh, it’s a, uh, a part of AI that analyzes your workouts.

[00:03:32] Nate Pearson: And then based on that, it, uh, updates your training. Uh, or if you’re not on a training plan, I’m sorry, what it does is adjust your levels. And we can talk more about levels of how it’s like a profile of how well you perform as an athlete. And then that then drives your training plan. Or if you use train now and stuff in the future, um, also though, if you skip a workout, you don’t have to complete a workout.

[00:03:54] Nate Pearson: So if you miss a workout, um, or if you don’t perform well in a workout that gets fed into the system, and then it updates again, too, this is really like, um, uh, a way that you want to take out, like confusion into the process of like, what should I do next? Or if I didn’t do this perfectly right. Or if I perform too well or not too well, but you know, over the target or under the target, what happens.

[00:04:16] Nate Pearson: And a lot of times it’s hard to understand. Um, and that’s what adaptive training is supposed to do to be able to make it so that it takes that confusion away. You just have confidence in the system that, Hey, I’m gonna get the right workout every time and I can move forward and just do what it says.

[00:04:31] Jonathan Lee: Yeah. And it’s two, most like the two most basic components of this are objective input and subjective input. The objective input is how you do on your workout, right? We’re able to see the power data compared to what you were supposed to do. And as a result, our system analyzes your rides with machine learning algorithms that we’ve been trading here will continue to train forever.

[00:04:51] Jonathan Lee: So let me get this really deep analysis of how you did. And then we ask you with these surveys. This is where the subjective part comes in. We ask you with these surveys thereafter, how the workout felt. And even though that seems really simple, the combining of those two things is really powerful and it allows us to be able to make the right changes and then you get the right workout every time.

[00:05:10] Jonathan Lee: And that’s really what the goal is. And that’s kind of what it feels like. Uh, it’s, it’s cool because in one respect, you’d think that this is going to be super complicated because really it is very complicated in terms of what has gone into developing. But it’s so easy to use, right? Yeah. But it’s so easy to use because you just do your workouts, you fill out the surveys and then it says carrier adaptations and it’s that easy.

[00:05:33] Jonathan Lee: So, uh, it’s that objective performance data, the subjective feedback that we get from you as an athlete, then it allows you to be trained as an individual. Good. For those,

[00:05:42] Nate Pearson: for those who don’t know that survey it’s, uh, if you, uh, do the workout and everything’s as planned, you get a one through five of how hard it was.

[00:05:49] Nate Pearson: One being easy, five being an all out effort. And, uh, inside of that, as long as it’s not, uh, as long as you’re consistent in your responses and you, uh, like it’s, are we getting this right now, Jonathan? But I’m talking about, so we should. Yeah. Why not the response to this? Cause there’s confusion of like, well, how do I say what a workout should be?

[00:06:10] Nate Pearson: This was a VO two max. And it was easier than I thought it would be. It was still really hard. Do I say it’s easy or do I say it’s all out or like, or hard? I don’t know, understanding and what it is is just, how has that workout feel? Not how you expected it to feel. So for me, I do a VO two max workout. It is almost always hard or very hard.

[00:06:30] Nate Pearson: It’s sometimes all out and all out means like I had nothing left to give, I could not give anymore. And I think we’ve all felt this in a race capacity. You’re like, well, I’ve never felt this set of train workout. That’s probably a good thing. Like you don’t have to have that all out thing all the time, but a very hard, um, for me personally, when I think of very hard as like, Matt.

[00:06:50] Nate Pearson: I do not want to do another interval. I might be able to, but I really don’t want to. And for me hard is like I could do more intervals. Um, but it’s what is important about the system is you stay consistent and we’re looking for big shifts. So if you do a VO two max workout, and you say it was easy, adapt train is going to say, you are way off the target right here.

[00:07:08] Nate Pearson: We’re going to push your levels. So we’re going to make you advance faster and be able to new max until we find something where it starts to be difficult for you because a hard day should be hard. Um, opposite. If you have an easy day and you are. It’s an easy 30 minute spin and it becomes very hard when something else is going on.

[00:07:25] Nate Pearson: Right. And that’s going to feed into the system too. So, uh, that is, that’s the nice part of it. And then also, if you don’t finish to work out early, we need to know that information and it will send you a blast. You, why didn’t you finish early? Because if you just stop a workout, we don’t know if it’s, you didn’t have enough time.

[00:07:40] Nate Pearson: It was like a kid crying or, uh, did you just give up, like, did you not have the mental energy? And there’s a whole bunch of questions in there. Do you feel sick? Did your equipment break? Um, there’s a lot of things that could happen and we all, we need that information to, in order to push the system forward, uh, and get more data into it.

[00:07:58] Nate Pearson: And also to know how to change your, um, your training plan, because there’s a big difference. If you’re doing a VO two max workout and you just don’t have enough time to finish, then this was soul crushing. And I only got through 30 minutes cause I could not go any farther. Yeah,

[00:08:13] Jonathan Lee: absolutely. And, and once again, re reiterating what you said.

[00:08:17] Jonathan Lee: Don’t over-complicate it. It’s just how the workout felt. It’s not how it felt in relation to anything else. It’s just how it felt. So if it feels really hard that day, then it’s hard. If it feels easy that day, then it’s easy. It’s just how it feels. A lot of people are like, should I comment on how it felt at the end of the workout or halfway through it?

[00:08:34] Jonathan Lee: Like one note, just how did it feel if you look back at it, how did it feel? Uh, simplifying. It really helps you make it more consistent over time too. So you don’t have to go so deep into the weeds

[00:08:45] Nate Pearson: and you’re not by like one, like there’s no, it should be no stress on this. It should just be like in the moment.

[00:08:51] Nate Pearson: Oh, at that felt hard. Okay. And then you move for

[00:08:54] Jonathan Lee: answering a four instead of a three doesn’t mean that your training is going to go 180 degrees away, right. Um, Yeah, it’s built, it’s built to be able to handle all that. Let’s talk a bit about the beta process and what we’ve done. So, um, the development process in and of itself, many times you start out with an alpha go to a beta and then you go to production, but that there’s, there’s finer resolution within all of that, right.

[00:09:16] Jonathan Lee: In the sense that the beta usually has different, uh, different steps to it. And for us, we had a private beta and that was what everybody signed up for when we announced this back, I think in February of last year, which is super exciting.

[00:09:28] Nate Pearson: We have, before that we used it for. Oh, yeah. Months, seven, eight months.

[00:09:33] Nate Pearson: Like, I mean more than that, but when, when, when it was actually in a state that we could personally use it, it was a long

[00:09:37] Jonathan Lee: time. Yeah. So we use it there. Then we opened up the beta so that people could sign up and then we did a staged rollout. Uh, what’s the point of doing the stages rollout, Nate? Yeah,

[00:09:46] Nate Pearson: the stage rollout is so we have, we have a lot of users.

[00:09:50] Nate Pearson: Um, and what can happen is if you open the flood gates, you can overwhelm your, uh, both your like technical processing system. And you can overwhelm employees because if you have a huge book, You could have, let’s say thousands of people sending in support tickets in the same hour. And we have, we have a lot of employees, but we don’t have that many employees and we’re not going to be able to handle that.

[00:10:15] Nate Pearson: And then the engineers get this pressure of this needs to be fixed right away. And the product managers and then marketing is like, you’re killing our brand. Oh my God. And it is this, it’s this unnecessary way to be able to open up to everyone at once. Even though I think with this product, like a lot of people, um, have been super duper excited about it and they want it in so fast.

[00:10:34] Nate Pearson: And I feel that with people and I understand cause, um, I, I mean, no one wants it out faster than I do, I think in the world. So I feel that wanting to come out, but that’s why we did it in slow stepped phases is because, um, we did have bugs. We had some bugs that like, actually I think we had like a hundred people on it and we took down our own site and we fixed it.

[00:10:56] Nate Pearson: But because of the processing and you can imagine if. Tens of thousands of people on it, how that would have handled it or what would have happened to, uh, to our site. So that’s why, I mean, we’re human and we’re w we had to do a step process and that’s the most efficient way, but we also learn things during the process about, uh, we got, we improved the product because we got feedback.

[00:11:17] Nate Pearson: So we can look at, look a little groups, change something, improve it, get the feedback. And then also, uh, and then next year kind of refine it and, uh, understand it more. So that’s, that’s the way that, um, I think train road likes to do software releases where it’s stepped in small gates. We add more people and more people, more people I can understand that what’s frustrating.

[00:11:36] Nate Pearson: You kind of want it the ideal way is it gets fully baked. You don’t hear about it. And then on the launch day, you can fully experience it because then you don’t have to wait. And it’s very, very exciting. Uh, I don’t, until we get much, much bigger and have a better system on that, I don’t think that’s gonna happen just to set expert.

[00:11:54] Jonathan Lee: For sure. Yep. Yeah. This is how the development process works. Um, and overwhelmingly the feedback and the improvement that we’ve seen from athletes is, has been super positive. It’s really exciting. I want to share some data behind that too. Uh, some stuff that we can share here. So roughly 25% of trainer road athletes trained with adaptive training during the beta period, it’s important to keep in mind that beta periods aren’t meant to replicate at full scale, right?

[00:12:16] Jonathan Lee: They’re supposed to give you the sample size sufficient to be able to improve the product. Right? So with that some cool data points at this, um, athletes that have enabled adapt to training has seen a 50% increase or sorry, 50% decrease in failed workouts year over year. So. Yeah. So that’s a workout where you weren’t able to complete it because it was just too difficult, right.

[00:12:38] Jonathan Lee: Um, came to a stop partway through, uh, weren’t able to finish the intervals and to put that in better context, if I was training last year without adaptive training. And then this year I was training with adaptive training, that data says that I had would have a 50% decrease in the amount of workouts that I failed.

[00:12:54] Jonathan Lee: Consistency is one of the most driving metrics with training that we see in helping people get faster. So this is a huge, huge improvement for us.

[00:13:02] Nate Pearson: And let me explain more to why that’s so important is the reduction and failed workouts. And that’s, even if you turn down the workout a ton, right? Or you start skipping intervals, we take breaks and intervals and our system.

[00:13:12] Nate Pearson: Uh, to you might, our system is smart enough to know that if you just skip one or you do a little bit of a break, it’s not going to air quotes failure. Like there’s, there’s, there’s a room in there and there’s, there’s ones that workouts that completely crush you. And those are the ones we’re trying to detect.

[00:13:26] Nate Pearson: Uh, but inside of this, like what would happen is because people would take breaks or, um, maybe, uh, the, the VO two max to ramp test, uh, ratio for you is outside of that bell curve that you got challenged too much on those workouts. And that’s why you would then fail those. Or you would actually pick a workout from library.

[00:13:49] Nate Pearson: We sell this a lot and all workouts, aren’t the same, just because you have an FTP doesn’t mean you can do, uh, every single workout and every single energy’s own right away. Um, and that’s what we have in the level system that we can explain, explain later, but we actively try to guide people away from workouts.

[00:14:06] Nate Pearson: If they’re not ready. So you’ve got an FTP and maybe you start with 10 minutes at threshold intervals and you work your way up and you can work your way all the way up to an hour threshold. And I just did that in my Cape epic preparation. Uh, but a lot of people can’t just do an FTP test. That’s not an actual hour test and then express that, um, immediately over all their energy systems, uh, and B bang in three minute repeats at a VO two max repeats at one 20 with like very little rest.

[00:14:35] Nate Pearson: That’s another thing that you, you want to train up. So by doing this and having the system, uh, adjust, you get a lot less failed workouts, and then you don’t get crushed. Your motivation is a lot higher if you really get those hard days that are hard, but not all out. And you have some rest days, training is so much easier.

[00:14:51] Nate Pearson: You actually get faster, faster, and it is not, uh, it doesn’t become a.

[00:14:57] Jonathan Lee: And, uh, reminding people of the mechanics of how this works, you do your workouts, you fill out the survey, you get adaptations, and then your training plan constantly improves and adjust to you. Right? So another data point with this is that adapted workouts, meaning workouts on your calendar that adapt to training has not adjusted versus those that it has adjusted.

[00:15:14] Jonathan Lee: So keep that in mind, adaptive workouts have a 38% lower failure rates than non-adaptive workouts. So that’s also showing that down the road, when adaptive training makes changes to your training, it’s, it’s also, there’s like a compounding effect of the fact that not only are you failing less workouts, but then the ones that you’re getting suggested also have a much, or have greater odds for success, which is what you want to know.

[00:15:38] Jonathan Lee: Right? Those adaptations that you’re getting, you want to have confidence that it’s going to improve your odds of getting faster and getting the right workout at the right time citing.

[00:15:47] Nate Pearson: Oh, I was thinking about this, John. I would explain it is it’s like if you’re lifting. And you’re trying to bench press 150 pounds and you can’t do it well, other plans will have you, and even our previous plans, we’ll be able to next week, we’re going to do 170 or 160.

[00:16:02] Nate Pearson: And so I can’t do one 50 and then it can compound on each other. And that’s the way people fall off training plans and training altogether is by it not adjusting to your performance every time. Uh, and that’s, again, one of the many aspects that we wanted to improve inside of, uh, training. For

[00:16:18] Jonathan Lee: sure. And other ones.

[00:16:20] Jonathan Lee: So athletes with adaptive training enabled we’re 20% more likely to increase their walk, further Watts, Watts per kilogram, or their power to weight ratio. So that’s huge. That’s a, that’s an awesome improvement to see that increase in likelihood. I want to add some stipulations to this though. So the first one, this is filtered for athletes over three Watts per kilogram.

[00:16:38] Jonathan Lee: So we’re trying to weed out the outliers that you get with like brand new athletes. Right? Additionally, this is over the course of the open beta. So this doesn’t include much of the training season where athletes typically see improvements. Right. Uh, in fact, if anything, athletes tend to see that decreasing FTP when they go through the summer and into the fall.

[00:16:57] Jonathan Lee: So that’s something. That once again, lots of confidence that we’re getting from this number, the, in the quote off season, in terms of improvements that athletes get, we’re still seeing a 20% increase in likelihood that they’re going to see an increase in their walk kg. That’s that’s what all of us have the trickling for power to weight increases.

[00:17:13] Nate Pearson: And there could be a sample bias. Two of these are the people that are maybe the most dedicated or something like that. But I think you guys made sure like people were training all that sort of stuff like, but anyways, it’s just, yeah, it is a, it is a, not a published metric that we’re going to like put in a paper, but also for us, it shows, I think combined with all the other metrics we have and then the feedback from people in the forum and, uh, private and support that it’s a really good product and it’s a huge improvement.

[00:17:40] Nate Pearson: Uh, I think, I think it’s, this will be expected in training software for the future. Now, this sort of thing, uh,

[00:17:51] Jonathan Lee: Absolutely. And it’s worth saying too, is that this is by far not even remotely close to what we think is I’m not even sure a finished product actually exists with that. The training, right. It will constantly improve and we’re constantly improving it.

[00:18:03] Jonathan Lee: So to see this just in the beta period to already see these positive signs is super encouraging. And now we have so much more that we’re constantly working on to improve its, and then we can drive those numbers even higher.

[00:18:14] Nate Pearson: I can say a CEO, this is the adaptive trainee is the future. And this is what we are vetting our, our wagon on and to put our effort into improve this.

[00:18:25] Nate Pearson: Uh, it’s like if we’re building a high rise, we have a, we’ve been building the foundation super deep and now we have two stories of this skyscraper that we’re trying to build and we have the fitting station and we just want to keep now building. And get that huge a hundred story, 200, I don’t know, 200 stories thing, big, huge Dubai, uh, building this isn’t something like now we’re moving to the next thing.

[00:18:49] Nate Pearson: Uh, this is, this is the future. And as we get more data and more athletes, the system we believe will constantly improve and we want to get better and better and better.

[00:19:01] Jonathan Lee: Absolutely. Um, so, uh, do you want to get into some of the questions that we have from athletes? Or do you want to jump into the rest of the stuff that we have listed out here, Nate?

[00:19:10] Nate Pearson: I’m here for you. Okay, cool.

How does it make you faster?

[00:19:13] Jonathan Lee: Sounds good. Um, there’s uh, let’s just actually look at like the basics of, if you ask the question of how does it make you faster? It’s kind of like six main ways, and Nate’s mentioned a lot of them already, but the first one is that it customizes your training to your abilities and your needs and your goals.

[00:19:29] Jonathan Lee: That means that if you have a training plan, adaptive training is going to look at where your point B is, right. Getting from point a to point B. And it’s constantly going to adjust your training so that you’re taking your own pace to get to wherever your goal is. Uh, it also looks at, like Nate said, missed workouts, uh, or unique abilities.

[00:19:47] Jonathan Lee: If you’re really good at VOC or not good at threshold, it adjusts for all that. So that’s one, those are a few ways that it makes you faster. Then number two, the main one, one of the most profound ones is when life gets in the way and you miss those workouts, you have to take time off, whether it’s proactive or reactive, you suddenly just missed a bunch of workouts or you’re planning, vacation, adaptive training works around that.

[00:20:08] Jonathan Lee: It also works really well with FTP testing. So like what Nate said before. You can do a ramp test. You can get a great measure of your FTP, but that still might not mean that you can just nail VO two intervals right off the bat that are super hard or nail those super long a sweet-spot work, whatever it may be.

[00:20:25] Jonathan Lee: You are a unique athlete and you have a unique profile. So as a result, you need to be trained uniquely. And that’s what adaptive training does it allows each of those energy systems to be trained independently, uh, while working with your FTP to make sure it’s all anchored. Well, uh, the other thing that it does too, is it makes it easier to change or I guess, to kind of like, uh, and we’ll get into this in a little bit.

[00:20:48] Jonathan Lee: It makes it easy for you to be able to make adjustments on the fly, but still keep everything on track. There are some days, and I can’t do the 90 minute workout that was scheduled. And I honestly only have time for 30 minutes. So instead of doing nothing, uh, adaptive training has this cool thing called alternates that allows us to be able to, when you look at the schedule workout, you can just click on that.

[00:21:07] Jonathan Lee: And you can say, I only have 30 minutes today and it will suggest workouts that are similar in terms of intent that fit the constraints that my life puts upon me. It’s super cool. Uh, you can go for longer too. If you have more time to fill up, you can change up the type of workouts or whatever else, but it tries to give you, or it gives you those suggestions to try to keep you on track and not let you derail too much.

[00:21:29] Nate Pearson: We’re just talking about right now, the part that I’ve used, I’ve had life stress, and I don’t know if you’ve ever had. This is my experience. You have a workout and it’s planned and you’re ready for it. And then something happens during that day or the night before, maybe it’s a kid crying, you can’t sleep, uh, maybe didn’t eat well, or you had work stress or something like that.

[00:21:49] Nate Pearson: And then you get intimidated by that workout, right? And you’re like, I do not want to do this workout. Uh, sometimes you, you can do it and you get into one interval and it’s like, it’s fine. But what I’ve done is there’s this way where you can look at it. And let’s say it’s a threshold level five, which is air quotes, productive, which we’ll talk about.

[00:22:08] Nate Pearson: Uh, and what you can do is you can use workout alternatives and just get a slightly easier workout. So instead of a five, you can do a level four and have the same profile. So meaning if it’s over-under is you can do instead of a five, it does a four. And that would probably mean either get more rest or probably shorter intervals.

[00:22:27] Nate Pearson: The difference between that one point, especially when you’re stressed can be night and day and you can get through the workout. You still progress. You still put like money in the bank. Um, and it’s so much better than doing the harder workout. And then only, you know, came through one interval, uh, stopping it.

[00:22:47] Nate Pearson: Then you feel bad about yourself or you shouldn’t feel bad about yourself that you can. I fall in that trap before, too. It’s so much better just to do a slightly easier workout. Um, sometimes you have to take the day off. It is, it’s such a good, cool feature, and it makes it so easy to be able to just do it easier to work out that day.

[00:23:04] Nate Pearson: And sometimes this happens for weeks. You might have weeks where you can’t progress and you just kind of like maintain. And that also is good and it gives you mental energy and space and, uh, it’s okay. Not to like bang it out every time and try to just constantly get faster and faster and faster.

[00:23:19] Jonathan Lee: Yeah. I completely agree.

[00:23:21] Jonathan Lee: It’s, uh, it’s such a helpful feature, something over nothing. Right. And it makes that possible. We talked about that on the podcast all the time. Uh, the other way is, uh, so let’s say that you’re not following like a training plan for a specific event and you’re very hyper driven toward that event. If you just want to train and do some base training for awhile and you toss on a base training plan, it will still adapt within that.

[00:23:43] Jonathan Lee: It’ll adapt that plan and it will just make sure that it’s always trying to give you the best base fitness you can get or build or specialty, whatever plan you just toss on. That’s fine. If you don’t follow a plan and you don’t want to, then you get trained now from this. And that’s a huge benefit and a really, really popular tool that we’re seeing.

[00:24:01] Jonathan Lee: A lot of athletes use. Even those hyper driven athletes when they’re in between plans or they have some timeframe that they want to be able to fill or change up their training train now is really good for it too. Um, do you wanna explain train now really quick, Nate? Cause it’s a part of adaptive

[00:24:15] Nate Pearson: training.

[00:24:15] Nate Pearson: Yeah. Train. Now, the reason why we built it is, um, a lot of people don’t want to be on a training plan and they don’t want the commitment of a training plan. Their life isn’t set up in a way where, or they don’t have the motivation or the desire. And the desire is the right way to say it that they want to say, Hey, to.

[00:24:33] Nate Pearson: Tuesday Thursday, Saturday, whatever days you pick on a plan, I want to work out. And what trade now does is it’s almost like a, it just, you open the app and it shows you three workouts and endurance, a climbing aren’t attacking workout that are right for your level. It’s the full fit, I think to 60 minutes, but you can change it for 30 minutes or 45 or hour and a half, whatever you want.

[00:24:55] Nate Pearson: And it just shows you what is appropriate for you. And it looks at what your levels are, what your current fitness is and what workouts you’ve done recently. And it gives you three suggestions. You can hit shuffle and see something again. But the idea is I can open the. I can look at it. Oh, this looks interesting and fun.

[00:25:11] Nate Pearson: I’m going to do this workout and just go, there’s no mental energy. There’s no stress. There’s who cares if you miss days, whatever you want to do, you can just jump in and go. And that is a actually did that over the summer. I use train now cause I didn’t have, I had a divorce and I was like, I don’t feel like doing a structured training plan right now.

[00:25:30] Nate Pearson: I really want to train when I feel like it because my emotions are changing all the time. And I didn’t want to put myself in a situation where, uh, you feel bad for missing a workout, which no one should, like, I want to say that, but it is something that just to be aware of. So I was aware of it. I didn’t do a training plan.

[00:25:46] Nate Pearson: I use train now and it is, it’s really fun. Actually. It’s almost like a little off season because, uh, you just get to train how you feel and you can still get faster. And I did get faster, which is, is really cool. It’s like a very effective way to train. Um, I think for some people actually, if the stress of a training plan or not the stress, the, uh, the.

[00:26:09] Nate Pearson: I don’t know what the right word is, John, but there is a, a training plan has to have me, um, I feel like a training plan, even with the depth of training, I have to follow it a certain way. And that could be some kind of impact mentally on me if that’s okay.

[00:26:22] Jonathan Lee: The level of commitment, right? Yeah, exactly. That might, that might not be necessary for everybody.

[00:26:28] Jonathan Lee: And it could even be damaging for some people to add on that sort of pressure. Yeah, for sure.

[00:26:33] Nate Pearson: You could just use train now and feel better and actually get faster, have less stress and just open it up and see how you want to train when you want to train. And, uh, yeah. Be a, be a lot, lot faster. You might not win a national championship, but if you’re trying to finish some race or improve your category, like, and this makes you more consistent, a hundred percent, you’re going to be faster, right.

[00:26:56] Nate Pearson: For sure. We do stress, make you more consistent. It’s it’s gonna be.

[00:26:59] Jonathan Lee: And one of the big things that it fixes, uh, all of us are not very good at estimating what we can and can’t do, uh, whether it’s recency bias or whether it’s, whatever it might be, we just drop into the workout. And then you’d say, oh, I want to do that workout today.

[00:27:14] Jonathan Lee: And you do that workout. And then it ends up being super easy and you don’t feel like you got the benefit or really hard, and it completely blows you up. And this is what train now really fixes is it allows you to just jump in, pick what you want to do, but it, it guides that suggestion, so that it’s appropriate for you.

[00:27:29] Jonathan Lee: So then that way, when you just drop in, you’re not getting blown up. It always feels like the right workout at the right time. It’s, uh, it’s a huge help. And the other side of this, let’s say that you don’t follow a training plan. Like you aren’t using plan builder to follow something really specific. You haven’t put a training plan on your calendar just to train generally, and you aren’t doing train now.

[00:27:46] Jonathan Lee: Everyone’s still benefits from, from adaptive training in a different way. And that now everything is, um, quantified in a totally different way. Every time you look at a workout, Nate was mentioning earlier, like a level four versus a level five, and that gets into something that we have called workout levels.

[00:28:02] Jonathan Lee: So we’ve used our machine learning to be able to analyze all of the workouts in our library. And if you’ve used trainer road, you’ve probably noticed a huge amount of new workouts have come up. And that’s because of this, because what we did is we looked at this and we said, analyze all of these workouts to find out how hard this workout is in relation to another workout.

[00:28:19] Jonathan Lee: That’s perhaps similar. But actually different. So our system looks at what energy system it works, but then also how it works at energy system. Is it over unders is it just hard start intervals? Is it sustained intervals? Is it short ones? If it’s VO two max, is it on offs or is it bursts or if, is it that reduced amplitude bill that profile, it looks at that and cuts these workouts down into all these very, very fine tuned categories.

[00:28:47] Jonathan Lee: And then it’s able to say this workout is harder than this workout by this precise amount. And when it does that, that allows our system to be able to make the right recommendation for whatever workout you have next. But it also allows you as an athlete to look at where it gets and understand, oh, okay.

[00:29:02] Jonathan Lee: That one is harder than that one or that one is easier than that one. And it’s cool because we actually just had an athlete on a, he just tagged us on Instagram and he had taken some time. And adapt to training super smart. And it has something built into it called energy system decay. So when you take time off, it knows, depending on how much time you’ve taken off, how much reduction you should expect in your aerobic capabilities, in the endurance zone or in the thresholds and whatever it might be.

[00:29:29] Jonathan Lee: And it gave him a workout. He was like, there’s no way I can do that workout. That’s crazy. And Nate and I have had that same experience so many times where we’ve gotten it suggested to us and we’re like, oh, that’s, you know, that’s way too easy. And it ends up being perfect or if that’s way too hard and it ends up being perfect.

[00:29:43] Jonathan Lee: Um, he ended up absolutely nailing the workout and he was like, that’s incredible. Like I never would have thought that I could have done that workout just coming back from time off. But because it has this really measured way of doing it, it makes it so that you get the right workout at the right time.

How can you use it?

[00:29:56] Jonathan Lee: So that’s another way everyone, when they look at workouts, so you can see the levels,

[00:30:00] Nate Pearson: I think too, we could say. Sometimes it’s a training zone or the energy system, because some training zones have the same energy system. And I think I’m guilty of this too, or I use those words interchangeably, but before the, uh, physiology police, uh, messages in the forum, we’re sorry for if we do that, but just the understanding that, uh, performance and sweet spot and threshold is different for athletes.

[00:30:24] Nate Pearson: Um, even if the energy systems are extremely close, that are being worked in those, they are different workout sounds. And that’s what we’re concentrating.

[00:30:32] Jonathan Lee: Yep. For sure. So I want to recap the simplicity of using it all you do, do your workouts, fill out your surveys, you’ll get adaptations. And then after that, you’ll see your abilities improve and it’ll feel your consistency is going to go up.

[00:30:44] Jonathan Lee: It’s exciting. Um, right now it’s automatically active for everybody on trainer road. Uh, everyone will get it. If you sign up right now, if you’re an existing trainer road athlete, if you have your account, uh, if you, if you’ve suspended your account temporarily, when you come back. Uh, it will be ready and waiting for you.

[00:31:01] Jonathan Lee: Uh, so then you can start using it. Uh, everybody has access to it. You can access and you’ll be able to see all this stuff, just how you use the app. Naturally, like I said, in that process of doing your workouts, filling out your surveys and just repeating and going through that whole process. So exciting.

[00:31:16] Jonathan Lee: Um, uh, if you have training plans on your calendar right now, if they’re really old training plans, like, uh, in the past year, we’ve updated all of our plans across the board. So if you have, I can’t think of a situation where somebody would likely still have a training plan. That was not one of the new ones, but if you do, then you’ll have to update that plan to start using, uh, adaptive training, because it doesn’t adapt the old plans.

[00:31:40] Jonathan Lee: Uh, it does with the new ones, but that’s basically the only spot where I would think that anybody wouldn’t be able to use it is that educators, otherwise everybody’s on board. Um, so yeah, that, that’s kind of where we sit with that. Um, we already explained, explained workout levels, which is a data-driven ML analysis of how hard a workout is compared to another one.

What are the new metrics in Adaptive Training?

[00:31:59] Jonathan Lee: Uh, but we should probably talk about progression levels. Nate, you mentioned them briefly, briefly earlier, but, uh, what are progression levels?

[00:32:06] Nate Pearson: Yeah, progression levels. Uh, this is the achievable and productive that you want something to talk about, right. Or the actual

[00:32:12] Jonathan Lee: levels. So this is the levels that you see on your career when you log in, you see on your,

[00:32:17] Nate Pearson: so we broken it out.

[00:32:18] Nate Pearson: I’ll see if I can do this off the top of my head, the concussion. I can still feel that we broken out your, uh, workout, uh, levels into zones. So we have endurance tempo. Sweet-spot threshold VO, two max anaerobic. Okay. So we have those and it’s almost like you’re a, for those, um, gamers out there, you’re like an RPG and you, you have, those can be levels between one and 10, and this is relative to your FTP.

[00:32:43] Nate Pearson: And after you do a fitness, a seminar physics assessment, or each country FTP, we set you some default levels. And this is based on where you’re at before your history and a bunch of other things. And then as you work out and let’s say you’re a level four threshold, and you accomplish a level 4.5 threshold workout, your new threshold workout level is 4.5.

[00:33:06] Nate Pearson: And what this does is it gives you a very clear understanding of how well you’re performing at that FTP, because the problem was before is that, um, I would have my FTP set to let’s say three 20 and it might be set there for awhile, but inside of that system or inside of when it was there for that, those maybe eight weeks, my ability to express that FTP and how fast I was changed dramatically, but I didn’t have a.

[00:33:30] Nate Pearson: To actually understand how fast I am inside of this. Uh, and especially like season over season and stuff like this. So by having this, if you start at a level two threshold and you work up to a level 10, you are such a different athlete, but you have to be as a changed. And this also gives you small wins and training all the time.

[00:33:49] Nate Pearson: It can be really, um, confusing with, Hey, this over-under, I did eight minutes over unders and it has four minutes of rest, but the next one is nine minutes over unders with five minutes of rest, which one’s harder. You don’t really know. It’s really hard to figure out what your brain, as a human, which one is harder.

[00:34:06] Nate Pearson: And you might even not understand that one is harder than the other. Uh, but with this system, with the levels, you can, all, you can make sure that you are progressing. And if you have problems progressing in the future, um, you can look at your life and be like, Hmm, am I in my genetic potential? Probably not.

[00:34:21] Nate Pearson: Uh, am I eating right? And am I sleeping? Right? How’s my stress. Uh, how much am I giving into this workout? All of these sorts of things that we’ve talked about for years in order to really have, find, get grain, understanding of how. Yep.

[00:34:37] Jonathan Lee: They’re like your video game character levels, like Nate said, uh, like, you know, a car might have really good handling top speed cornering, and they have those of different bar charts that represent that it’s just like that you have your zones and you have your abilities and it’s a representation of what you can do it at that given snapshot in time.

[00:34:54] Jonathan Lee: Uh, once you take an FTP test, they change and they change dynamically to you as an individual, based on what you got. That’s actually one of the questions that we’ve got a person asks, why did I get all ones after I did my FTP test? My levels were somewhere over here. It took me FTP test. Now I’m all down to ones.

[00:35:10] Jonathan Lee: And the best way to answer that one is the bigger, the change in your levels, likely the bigger, the increase for bigger change in FTP, right? So if you just absolutely smashed it and you nailed and you increased 50 Watts or something like that on your FTP, then chances are in that case, you’re going to get your levels dropping down quite a lot.

[00:35:28] Jonathan Lee: And that makes sense, right? Because if you’re able to do a level five before, and then you’ve got a huge FTP increase, you wouldn’t want to just jump into level fives right after that you’d want to be dropped back. So then you’re getting the right threshold workout that you need at that new level.

[00:35:44] Nate Pearson: Yeah.

[00:35:44] Nate Pearson: Yeah. For sure. You shouldn’t ever be at the same level as you were before. And thinking of it, it’s the same with video games. Uh, If you level up your character, you’re like little bar start over and you got to fill them up again, but the experience. So think of it as an opportunity. And it’s kind of fun to, to switch from like a level eight threshold to level one, because the workouts change a lot and it’s like a different experience and you can kind of build into your new threshold and with adapt the training with the surveys.

[00:36:09] Nate Pearson: If for some reason you do need a faster progression with answering your, maybe your level one, you’re like that was not very hard. We’ll adapt training. We’ll look at that and then increase you quickly. Uh, and having, you know, a couple easy workouts and a training plan is so much better than just getting smashed and trying to like flog your way through through it where it’s.

[00:36:31] Jonathan Lee: For sure. The last thing to define is difficulty levels. So we’ve had workout levels. That’s how that’s the ranking of the workouts. You’ve had progression levels, which is kind of like your individual ranking of your abilities now difficulty levels. And what those are is what Nate was talking about before.

[00:36:44] Jonathan Lee: When we talked about something that’s achievable, productive, stretch, breakthrough, or not recommended. So each workout will have a label on it now, and you’ll see that label. Um, that is just an additional layer of help for you to be able to understand how achievable a workout. Uh, it may be, you know, uh, we all look at two by 20 at threshold and we wished that we could feel to do that.

[00:37:06] Jonathan Lee: And that might be achievable for Nate, but for me it might be a breakthrough or not recommended workout right now. So it really helps me understand, oh, okay. That’s why I’m stepping my way into this. That’s what I’m getting. And it also makes it so that when you’re making adjustments with alternates or you’re just trying to pick a workout, you’re trying to see where it’s at.

[00:37:25] Jonathan Lee: It gives you a good way to be able to set your expectations so that okay. Today’s and achievable workout. So it should feel like this. Whereas today is a breakthrough workout. If you end up picking one of those, it should feel really hard. So it’s a really good, um, it’s, it’s a good way to be able to get additional context into those workouts,

[00:37:41] Nate Pearson: how it works in the system is achievable as anything at the same level or lower, but then productive breakthrough.

[00:37:48] Nate Pearson: I’m sorry. Productive stretch. Breakthrough are not recommended are progressively more like a higher, a bigger jump in your current level and what we found and everyone’s probably experienced this is that. If you make a huge try to jump in your training, it can be, maybe you can get through it. Maybe it is a stretch or it’s really, really hard, but it’s also, you’re more likely to be able to have a, um, to have failures inside of that.

[00:38:12] Nate Pearson: And what we saw is a lot of people, they might look at the intensity factor, um, which intensity factor such as a metric used for TSS or the TSS, the TSS of a workout might be exactly the same, but it, it could be so much harder. For example, in the same time period, four by 10 minutes at threshold is the same TSS and intensity factor is for 40 minutes straight a threshold.

[00:38:36] Nate Pearson: Yeah. Yeah. One by 40. So there, there might be off by like one or two TSS inside of that, depending on how the workout norm is built. It, we all know that’s a huge difference in workout, but if you’re picky based on TSS and you might be like, I should be able to do this and then you try it and you’re like, you’re not ready for it.

[00:38:54] Nate Pearson: An at T will do is you’ll do 10 minutes and you’re 12 and you’re 15, you do 20. Right. And then you do a 30, like broken up and you work your way up to 40. And then suddenly you’re doing 40 minutes at 300 Watts. And like, I never expect to be able to do this just because you’ve been stepped slowly through the system rather than doing these big, huge jumps.

[00:39:15] Nate Pearson: Hmm.

[00:39:15] Jonathan Lee: I want to take some time to address the concern of like will adaptive training. Just kind of take me off course of my training plan. So in other words, like, will it keep adapting and just adapt further over. From the true north that it was supposed to be on there, various different questions that we got from people asking that.

[00:39:32] Jonathan Lee: And to do that, I want to discuss a little bit about how the training plans are built and how adapter training works together. So each day has a very specific intent and something that should be accomplished and it’s defined. And it basically, when we build the plans, we put up guardrails on those days for adaptive training to work within.

[00:39:48] Jonathan Lee: It has these constraints that allows it to know, okay, I can select workouts within this range and this range, depending on what this athlete needs, uh, that day should be a day where we’re really trying to drive the needle and improve performance. Or this is a day where we should not be trying to improve performance and we need to favor recovery, or this is an off day.

[00:40:06] Jonathan Lee: So absolutely we’re not scheduling something on this day. So the plans or the plans and adaptive training, they work together really intelligently each day has a specific goal to accomplish within that plan and adapt to training will always work within that framework. So that combined with your.

[00:40:23] Jonathan Lee: Objective data of your performance and the subject of data of your feedback that you given those surveys always make sure that it’s recalibrating and it makes sure that it’s staying on course for you and training you as an individual. So like, what that really means is that you’re not going to get a workout that because you have an event coming up and it’s in one week, but you failed one workout.

[00:40:45] Jonathan Lee: It doesn’t mean that it’s going to do some huge step change and make you do one hour at threshold, right before that, if you failed last week at doing 15 minutes at threshold, right, it’s going to look at what you need as an athlete, look at the guardrails and adjust. That also means that it’s not going to give you a two hour workout on a day when you should be only having 30 minute workouts.

[00:41:04] Jonathan Lee: Um, and vice versa as well. So it’s all defined and constrained within all of that. Um, it’s probably also, this is a good opportunity to bring up, uh, one of the criticisms that I saw, uh, the, somebody said that it feels like adaptive training just makes my workouts easier. Um, and some people say the opposite.

[00:41:22] Jonathan Lee: They’re like, it seems like it makes my workouts harder, but it’s super important to remember something that every day should be. Bringing you to the ground. I know that a lot of us are type, you know, type athletes that really want to feel like today because I went completely deep when all out like Nate was saying, and I had absolutely nothing left that was productive, but that’s not the case.

[00:41:42] Jonathan Lee: We need to break that association productive changes, depending on whatever goal you need to accomplish for that day and a well-structured plan, make sure that you’re doing that sort of variation in terms of what you need to do on those days. So some days it will feel easier. Some days it will feel harder, but it’s the right workout you should get.

[00:42:01] Jonathan Lee: Yeah. Some

[00:42:02] Nate Pearson: my response to that is yes. Like it just makes it easier. Yes. Because, um, whatever is going on and how you’re answering the surveys and performing, uh, it, whatever, the default like we have just like the bell curve, middle default, it was not set up correctly for you. So it’s, it’s a positive, it’s like, wow.

[00:42:22] Nate Pearson: This 80 adopter training found that this is not for me. And. Either way. Those are like, I, I feel like those should be the people that cheer the most. Right? If you go through a system, if you go through the training plan and you never get a single adaptation and you never miss a workout and you move forward, like you’ve hit the belt.

[00:42:43] Nate Pearson: There could be people like this, right. You go through a whole year. You’re exactly in the middle of the bell curve. There’s no difference. Uh, you’re like the standard, uh, physiological specimen, nothing ever changes. You never have a break. Those are the people should be like, Hey, what’s up. You’re not doing anything.

[00:42:57] Nate Pearson: If it’s changing a lot, it’s there for a reason. And it’s a good reason. Uh, and you should, I would, I would be like celebrating that rather than complaining

[00:43:05] Jonathan Lee: about it a hundred percent just because we’re used to training and running ourselves into the ground as these type a crazy driven athletes doesn’t mean that it’s the right thing for us to do.

[00:43:15] Jonathan Lee: Um, there’s some data behind this too, that I want to share. So, uh, there’s been a 94% increase in productive workouts completed since we’ve launched depth of training, that’s huge. Nearly double. Like that, that’s where you want athletes is in that productive range. Right? Some days you also want them to be doing achievable ones and some days you want them stretch, but predominantly you’re going to be in that productive.

[00:43:37] Jonathan Lee: Let me say

[00:43:37] Nate Pearson: that again, productive means like a stepped increase in that level. So you’re not doing these big jumps. You’re not going down, but you’re just doing that progressive step to increase, which is, uh, it’s like, uh, overload over time with proper rest. That’s what

[00:43:51] Jonathan Lee: we want to see. It’s every coach has dream.

[00:43:53] Jonathan Lee: They want to dwell within that productive range. Right. Uh, you get improvement,

[00:43:58] Nate Pearson: you don’t get smashed, but you’re also challenging yourself and you’re like measurably doing more work on these workouts. Yeah. It’s a

[00:44:05] Jonathan Lee: fact. Yes. There is a 5% decrease in achievable workouts completed. So in that case, it’s probably talking about the workouts.

[00:44:13] Jonathan Lee: Uh, sometimes when you pick a workout that. Too easy and not really driving the needle. Um, but then again, 5%, that’s not much of a movement and that’s what we want to see. Right. That’s where we want it. There’s a 53% decrease in stretch work that’s completed. So a stretch, I believe that’s a jump of greater than 1.5.

[00:44:32] Nate Pearson: I think it’s greater than one. Greater

[00:44:34] Jonathan Lee: than one to two. Yeah. Yep. So in some cases you are prescribed stretch workouts because that’s what the plan has in place. Right? Um, and in some cases you are not prescribed them, but it’s good to see that 53% decrease because when I just self select workouts, I select stretch and breakthrough.

[00:44:52] Jonathan Lee: I don’t know about you Nate, but like, that’s what I always see. Cause I think, okay. I just need to do the next big thing, the next big thing. And it always ends up driving me down

[00:44:59] Nate Pearson: before levels. That’s what I would do because you’re like, I want to get to this end result. Let me back it out. Okay. I just have to do, it’s like P I just got to stick it at 400 and that’s the way I, uh, I’ll get through this thing, uh, which is not the right way to train.

[00:45:15] Nate Pearson: It’s like trying to figure out I need to hit this FTP or this kind of water for this minutes. So I’ll just fill everything else and it will automatically get there. Uh, that’s not

[00:45:23] Jonathan Lee: the way for sure. There’s a 77% decrease in breakthrough workouts. So those, I think that we’re talking to a greater than, yeah.

[00:45:31] Jonathan Lee: And it’s

[00:45:31] Nate Pearson: the idea too, because the actual numbers might change in the future as we get more data and they might actually be that’s if it is beneficial, we’ll have these specific force specific people or specific like, uh, demographics. But the idea is, yeah, it’s more than a stretch by a lot. And this is a big jump in at your level.

[00:45:51] Jonathan Lee: And then a 93% decrease in not recommended workouts completed, which hallelujah. That’s good to see.

[00:45:56] Nate Pearson: Yeah, this is, um, this is a, uh, something that we’ve had people be vocal about on the internet is. You know, a trainer rose too hard. And I look at their career and they jump from something that’s very, maybe they do tenants a threshold, and then they jumped to an hour or they did this really hard anaerobic one.

[00:46:17] Nate Pearson: And they’re like, Trina road is too hard for me. It wasn’t in your plan. You just chose that workout. And, uh, this is what level’s trying to do. So if you bring that workout up, it says, this is not recommended for you. It’s like, I always think we should have a, like a, they should sign something, send them a DocuSign, but I will not hold train and rode responsible for this workout.

[00:46:34] Nate Pearson: But honestly too, we should’ve gave people more feedback. Right. Uh, we can’t expect people to understand this stuff without this system in place. So by doing this, um, if you do do a stretch workout and you don’t nail it. That’s okay. Like that is X that’s expected. If you can’t hit a productive workout.

[00:46:51] Nate Pearson: Well, look at your, look at your life, right? What’s going on like a tough couple for, um, all of these things. Give you more information in order to do the side of, there’s always going to be a side where like personal responsibility of, um, looking at my life, looking at my stress, look at my nutrition, my motivation, uh, inside of this workout.

[00:47:09] Nate Pearson: And then that works inside in tandem with adaptive training so that you can, uh, if you do. You can kick it back or if you feel awesome, Hey, I’m going to actually use work culture natives into a stretch today. These workouts haven’t been hard, hard enough. I don’t like how adaptor training has been pushing me forward perfectly reasonable, but if it does happen and you don’t complete it, please don’t blame us on the internet for yeah.

[00:47:32] Nate Pearson: For doing that because we did not prescribe that to

[00:47:35] Jonathan Lee: oh. And, and a popular complaint too, is that train roads plans are too hard and this whole entire system now makes it, so that, that, that at complaint is it’s an impossibility, right. In the sense that we have every day is planned and intentional and how it progresses with such high resolution of workouts to select from.

What about FTP tests?

[00:47:53] Jonathan Lee: So that it’s adjusting for you. It’s not trying to adjust you to the plan. Right. That’s that’s the key. So, yeah. Um, so let’s go into, um, yeah, we already covered surveys. So. And we’re going to get into a lot of the live questions that y’all are submitting, which thank you by the way, to everybody joining us live and asking those and thanks to Sean and Jesse and everybody else that’s in the live chat and helping answer a lot of those.

[00:48:19] Jonathan Lee: We’ll vocalize them for podcast listeners. Then they can hear them as well. But, uh, this is a big question is do I still need to take a ramp test, uh, right Nate with, since I have these levels and then the other question is, well then down the road, are we even going to need.

[00:48:34] Nate Pearson: Yes, that is a great, great question.

[00:48:36] Nate Pearson: Um, I don’t think there’s like four psychopaths who like taking tests. Everyone else, everyone, some people who feel attack doing a ramp test, uh, if you really know you’re a faster doing a ramp test can feel really super good to get that very concrete feedback that yes, I got faster. What, uh, the current recommendation trainer wrote is when you first sign up yes.

[00:49:01] Nate Pearson: Do a ramp test. That is because we have no idea what your fitness is. We can look at outside workouts and we have a system in place where we kind of estimate it, but inside can be different, uh, with motivation and cooling and your flywheel and a bunch of other things we talked about yesterday that ran test.

[00:49:15] Nate Pearson: But after that, we don’t have this built in the system, but I’m gonna give very special insights. All the podcast listeners. Oh, it is. It is okay. As you go through, if you’re training consistently, you’re not taking these big breaks is. Skip the ramp test and keep getting your levels up. And once you get closer to like a eight, nine or 10, you can manually adjust your FTP to what you think it is.

[00:49:39] Nate Pearson: And our levels will adjust so that it’s still progressive in your system. And you can keep training. Now, will this be as accurate as ramped up? No, it won’t be, but if you hate testing, this is a perfectly valid way to train. And as you update your FTP, if you didn’t nail it right, um, adaptive training is going to look at it and, uh, adjust your workouts pretty quickly, right.

[00:50:04] Nate Pearson: There might be a week or week and a half of like kind of adjustment as it kind of centers in on your fitness. But after that, you can move forward and be awesome. This is something too, but we will build in the product. So it’s automatic for those who don’t want to take gram tests, but you might not want to take a ramp test every four weeks or six weeks or eight weeks.

[00:50:20] Nate Pearson: Um, and that’s perfectly fine. And I did this myself, but as you go through the levels, bring them all the way up. There’s also fun. It just looks cool to see that go up and then you get to start over and do it again. Uh, so it, it, yeah. It’s okay. I’m telling y’all it’s okay. Not to take the ramp test and, uh, or any of the other tests and just adjusted.

[00:50:40] Nate Pearson: The other thing is just, don’t do huge jumps in your FTP, right? Like if you are 200, don’t be like, oh, I’m now 2 35. Uh, because I’m feeling awesome. Um, I wouldn’t

[00:50:53] Jonathan Lee: that’s when you take a ramp test, right? For sure. Like that’s when you need that the calibration,

[00:50:57] Nate Pearson: or if you’re taking a lot of time off, if you take many weeks off or a sub, you know, you had an injury, you broke your life and you come back, like it’s not going to be close.

[00:51:08] Nate Pearson: You’re probably not gonna be able to understand when your FTP is, and we’re not going to be able to understand it either because there’s a big change inside of your life. So take that ramp test to get you calibrated again. And then again, as long as you’re consistent and a week off is fine. Um, but I’m thinking like you take two months off, do it ramp test after that.

[00:51:25] Jonathan Lee: Yeah, for sure. Um, and then testing in the future, what do you think Nate?

[00:51:30] Nate Pearson: I mean, the. Every workout is a test, right? So the, what I want to get to is there’s some visions on that first thing that we won’t talk about for ramp tests. But after that, I would love to get to the point where nobody has to test again.

[00:51:51] Nate Pearson: And just based on how you feel in all the workouts, that is like a combination of what your FTP is. And we can then keep adjusting that and, uh, give you an information of how fast you are and make you progressive without having you to do ramp tests in between. That is the, that’s the vision, the goal, and still letting people do ramp tests.

[00:52:13] Nate Pearson: But I think, I think everyone would rather just have a workout that day than have a rep. Not everyone, most people live inside that system. So that is definitely what we as a company want to get to,

[00:52:24] Jonathan Lee: for sure. Megan has a live question that kind of falls into what we’re talking about here. She says. As users as users have more data, we call them athletes, not users.

[00:52:34] Jonathan Lee: Um, as athletes have more data with adaptive training, will the system learn how much to adjust your levels by following a new FTP test?

[00:52:41] Nate Pearson: Yes, it’s actually changed multiple times inside of this beta. Uh, there have been so many tweaks based on data and we could do a better job. It’s this is what we struggle with as it, where I struggle with as a leader is how much of the, like the secret sauce do we share with marketing and how much do we like not share because our competitors look at our stuff and, uh, maybe we could do it.

[00:53:05] Nate Pearson: I don’t know. We could talk about as a marketing team, but it’s very, you gotta make sure you don’t give away the recipe for Coke, but you also want to say this is a secret or this is a special recipe. Um, and I want to tell everyone too, cause it’s very exciting, but yeah, what we’ve done is, um, we’ve looked at how people perform on workouts.

[00:53:21] Nate Pearson: Um, the steps that they have. Uh, we break it down, uh, by demographics to look at that data too. And we have then adjusted things inside of adaptive training to keep improving.

[00:53:34] Jonathan Lee: Yep. Yeah. There’s been lots of improvements over the beta period, lots of tweaks and adjustments that we’ve had to do that we’ve learned, whether it’s adjusting, um, how specific things are analyzed, how specific energy systems compared to another and how the workouts rank within that, how it all works with plan builder.

[00:53:49] Jonathan Lee: You know, we’ve constantly had teams of people working on those adjustments. So they’ll continue for, this is a cool one.

[00:53:55] Nate Pearson: John is, as you do a workout like sweet spot, or let’s say you do a, a level eight threshold workout and you’re on that level one sweet spot. Well, you can probably do way more than level one at sweet spot, right?

[00:54:08] Nate Pearson: You’re only a level one because you haven’t, we haven’t, we don’t have any data of you actually working in that workout zone. Um, but so what we’ve done though, is we’ve. How people can, if they do that level of a threshold, how then our subsequent workouts in sweet spot and how do they perform with the surveys and all that sort of stuff.

[00:54:26] Nate Pearson: And what we can do then is you get credit for different energy systems as you go through them, based on like one anchor once with threshold, you get credit inside for sweet spot. And what’s interesting is some of them have relations where you get credit and other ones, we can’t, there’s no correlation in our dataset where you might think like, like for instance, anaerobic threshold, Unless something’s changed recently, which it always could.

[00:54:51] Nate Pearson: So I wanna put that caveat out. Uh, if you do a level 10 anaerobic workout that has doesn’t have influence on your threshold level, which is super interesting, right. Especially where we’re getting, you know, many, many, many, many workouts to be able to validate this data, especially over time, millions and millions of millions workouts.

[00:55:10] Nate Pearson: Uh, that, that is pretty, I think super interesting. And as this system goes forward, like I said, this is the foundation. We want to add more inputs and make everything more custom and just keep doing that for, uh there’s to the end of time. There there’s no time where we’re like this is done. Uh, the only time would be as if we have so many MLS systems where it constantly improves and there’s no new ML systems to build, but I don’t think that’s going to happen because tools will get better.

[00:55:42] Nate Pearson: We’ll have new inputs in and we’ll just keep iterating and trying to get a better, better.

[00:55:46] Jonathan Lee: Yeah, that probably gets to a question that I’ve seen too, where people are asking, uh, are using heart rate data for this, or HRV or sleep trackers, that sort of stuff, to be able to fill, uh, bringing that data. And like Nate said in the future, we’d love to be able to bring in anything that we can that’s reliable data that actually helps improve people’s training.

[00:56:03] Jonathan Lee: Right? Like, so that’s, it’s on our radar for sure. Right now we’re just using power, um, your performance. And so your objective performance data, your subjective survey data, to be able to drive these improvements in that subjective data captures. But so many of those other devices are working to try to capture right.

[00:56:21] Jonathan Lee: In terms of how you feel, but you down the road,

[00:56:24] Nate Pearson: we use heart rate too, for some things that are not specifically integrated right now that are being built, um, that we have in our own personal beta. But yeah, as John said, as long as it, the cool part about it is that we can understand if it does happen. So since we have such a big data set and everything is so finely grained tuned is that if we bring something in you, what you can do is you can use ML or use other methods to figure out is, does this have, is there a correlation between what this thing says in your performance?

[00:56:58] Nate Pearson: And we have a really good way to measure performance and then we can see, does it have an input or not? And there, as far as I know, there’s no one else who has the data set and the granularity that we have, especially with the subjective measure measurement, because that is the key piece that I think has been lost at scale is to understand that subjective part.

[00:57:19] Nate Pearson: So you can bring that data in and you can understand, Hey, there is a correlation with this or not. And then we can decide as a company, is, should this be used for everybody? Um, or not, or maybe it’s only certain people, maybe it’s a certain demographic that, that needs, uh, this kind of data. We’re not sure, but that’s the best evolution.

[00:57:38] Nate Pearson: But for deaf to training, we had to make sure that this. Really well, before we start building bringing more systems and that’s where the point this system works really well now with, to everybody we’ll look at bugs and then boom, next step. We, um, I’m not sure what the team has decided what the next step is, but then we’ll talk about that and keep getting it better and better and better

[00:57:56] Jonathan Lee: for sure.

What about unstructured, outside rides?

[00:57:57] Jonathan Lee: Uh, the question here and then we’re going to get into more of the live ones that you’ve submitted, but, uh, basically do I need a power meter to use adaptive training, um, power data. We, like Nate said, we’ve been building the system to be concrete and reliable so that we can kind of use it as like a ruler to be able to compare all of the things.

[00:58:14] Jonathan Lee: And that’s a power meter for power data is so great at it’s very objective. So you need power data, whether that comes from virtual power, smart trainer, power meter, whatever it is, uh, to be able to do that, there is kind of a way that you can use it without power data as well. So right now, if you do it, uh, with trainer road, you can do your workouts inside on the trainer with the train road app or outside with your garment or while who hadn’t unit.

[00:58:37] Jonathan Lee: And in those cases, when you do the workouts outside, if you don’t have a power meter, there’s that little switch where you can say, instead of power based outside workouts, I just want RPE based since I don’t have a power meter. And in that case would adapt to training will do, is it will assume that you completed your workout when you upload that ride.

[00:58:54] Jonathan Lee: Once it’s done, you can go back in and change that and say, I didn’t complete this workout. And you can go through the survey flow that Nate talks about earlier, but it’ll assume that you completed them. So it’ll move you along in your training. You’re not getting the benefit of the ML analysis, but you still are getting adaptations.

[00:59:09] Jonathan Lee: So it’s, it’s, it’s absolutely still adapting, but it’s just not at the same level of what you get with the ML analysis to be able to drive more specific changes thereafter. Um, so that’s a kind of a cool way to do, and that actually kind of leads into the multi-sport talk, um, and outside rides and all that.

[00:59:26] Jonathan Lee: So one thing that as of now, which we’re talking November 2nd, 2021, uh, the adaptive training does not have is the ability to analyze unstructured rides. So your races outside the group rides, you do that just easy rides or whatever else. Um, the current iteration of adaptive training is not analyzing those that said that’s absolutely something we’ve been working on and seeing huge progress on with a fantastic team of engineers that have been working on that one.

[00:59:55] Jonathan Lee: Um, Nate, do you have anything else that you would want to add at that point?

[00:59:59] Nate Pearson: That is the number one question on Instagram that I get from people. I want to say. I think I asked what questions you had and 90% were asking for that. Like when does that come out? Um, I mean, we’re doing something that no one’s ever done in the world and that is, it’s like, That is why it’s difficult.

[01:00:20] Nate Pearson: And I can’t give an example. It’s not like we’re building a credit card for them, or, Hey, we know it’s going to take this long. We can project manage it out. Um, that being said, we, we have an internal alpha that does analyze our outside workouts and we are tweaking it now. So that’s the state that we’re at.

[01:00:36] Nate Pearson: It’s not like, oh, we have this pie in the sky. It’s going to be like, it’s on the roadmap. It is, we are testing it internally. And then what we’ll do is we’ll test it externally. We will release it to other groups and then we’ll do it. This is, uh, we understand it’s a company. We need to have a complete vision of all of your workouts.

[01:00:54] Nate Pearson: Uh, as of now, until that gets done, I would ask users or athletes. Do a four hour hard ride on a Monday and, you know, VO two max the next day, please switch to an achievable or skip that day or do recovery ride, like have that under basic understanding. And I think everyone listens to the podcast long-term has that understanding.

[01:01:17] Nate Pearson: Uh, but what we want to do is if we can look at that, we can really adjust all your levels completely. So you do any unstructured workout and then that will adjust your levels and we’ll have the complete picture of your fitness at that fine grain control. That is, I mean, it’s the AML team’s number one priority is to do that and they’re doing it and they’ve been working on it for a very long time.

[01:01:39] Nate Pearson: Uh, yeah. It’s, uh, it is. It’s very exciting. That’s yeah, that’s the thing that I’m most excited about for the future of train road is that specific feature lunch. Uh, and I think that’s why two athletes who like to Jonathan, because that’s why they’re asking for it. And that’s why right. To be able to understand it more than just TSS.

[01:02:00] Nate Pearson: How well are they doing a workout? Yep,

[01:02:02] Jonathan Lee: absolutely. Well, that, there’s also a, I want to take that specific example that you had, if you do that big four hour ride and then you have via two max the next day and that four hour I wasn’t planned or anything else in your plan. You can carry on and do that VO two max workout.

[01:02:17] Jonathan Lee: And depending on how you do the system, system’s going to analyze your performance depending on how you reply in the subjective or in the surveys. It’s going to figure out what to give you from there on. So it will correct even if you don’t do anything. Um, but Nate’s saying a good way to make sure that you adjust things even beforehand, um, instead of giving it that workout, to be able to figure it out, you can just make those adjustments beforehand, too.

[01:02:39] Jonathan Lee: That’s another way to do it. So, but it’s super exciting. Uh, and the progress with alpha that needs talking about too has been really cool. Um, I did, I think all of my training outside, uh, not, I shouldn’t say all probably about 90% of my workouts were outside this year versus 10% inside. And with all those workouts, I was like stress testing this alpha with doing a lot of different, crazy things.

[01:03:02] Jonathan Lee: And some days like doing my intervals and then tacking on endurance or tacking on something else on either end. And what we’re really aiming for is, is for a truly intelligent system, that’s able to comprehend, uh, the compounding effect of order of the work that you’re doing as well. So, um, lots of really cool stuff that we’re working on with that.

[01:03:21] Jonathan Lee: And like Nate said, it’s going to be huge. Um, let’s talk about multi-sport cause this is somewhat related to this in the sense that right now our ML is not analyzing your swims and runs, right. Um, we’re using cycling to build this first and power to build this first because of like Nate said that objective data that we have, that we can really build a concrete foundation out of, uh, And as of now, we don’t have swims and runs.

[01:03:48] Jonathan Lee: As a high priority for the team, because we have so many other fish to fry, like we’re talking about with getting your outside rides, analyzed everything else, but you’re outside or your swims and runs still adapt. They adapt in a different way than they do with your rides. Um, once again, there’s no MLS analysis, but if you skip that workout that you were supposed to do that swim, uh, the next time you on the, let’s say you skip Wednesday, swim, workout.

[01:04:12] Jonathan Lee: Next Wednesday’s swim. Workout is going to adjust based off of that. If you skip the run workout, it’s going to adjust. So it’s taking into account the changes or the skips or other things that would happen, like the life stress interventions that you would have. Um, but it’s not actually analyzing those.

[01:04:28] Jonathan Lee: So it’s still. Um, we’re talking huge improvements from where we were, uh, even a year ago, um, for, for multi-sport athletes as well, but that’s where everything sits, uh, with, with multi-sport on that side of things and down the road too, like, this is where Nate and I want, you know, when you do that race, uh, on the whole entire company, not just Nate night, when you do that race and you just absolutely blow everything, your expectations out of the water and you have that great day, that’s what we want to be able to capture.

[01:04:54] Jonathan Lee: Um, when you do that group ride and you were just absolutely hanging on for dear life and you thought that you could have done better, we want to be able to capture that. So then we know how to make the changes down the road. So this is a huge improvement for athletes across the board. Like we mentioned the data before and for athletes that are following the training plans inside or outside, you still get a huge amount of benefit from this and a huge increase.

Live questions and answers

[01:05:16] Jonathan Lee: And this is how we step forward and really change the game entirely. Once we’re able to analyze all those outside breakup. Uh, okay. Let’s get into some live questions. Uh, this first one is from, I’m not going to say your names, forgive me. I know better than to make that mistake. Um, so, uh, this first one says I’m a triathlete, but in the off season, I’m training to do a 50 K trail running race.

[01:05:39] Jonathan Lee: I’d like to ride two times a week with adaptive training. How could I best leverage it after training?

[01:05:43] Nate Pearson: Yeah. Train now. And that situation, that is a perfect situation training. Now, on those days you open the app, you figure out how long you feel like you want to work out for this little dropdown. And what’s important with this is if your priority is trail running, there are going to be days where you’re like, you know what?

[01:05:59] Nate Pearson: I only feel like a 30 minute or this day. I just feel like 30 minute aerobics, an easier ride. And some days you want to smash it, you’re like, oh, I can do an hour or maybe have a rest day coming up. You wanna do 90 minutes. That, that is the use case for train now. And that will use that whole system of ML still gets put.

[01:06:15] Nate Pearson: It is not, uh, it’s just, we don’t have it predicted or, um, scheduled out on a calendar, which I think is that’s that’s a great question. It’s like, thanks for the T-ball.

[01:06:26] Jonathan Lee: Yeah, yeah, that’s perfect. Uh, Jason says how to do a polarize plan that we’ll use it after training. Our polarized plans are designed in the context of adaptive training too, so they do adapt.

[01:06:38] Jonathan Lee: Um, so, and add dance to that one specifically because I’ve followed polarized plans this year, as well as our, our, our pyramidal plans and going through the whole process. The plans are designed to fall pretty neatly within like an 80 20 framework in terms of days prescribed and what you’re working on and also time and zone.

[01:06:56] Jonathan Lee: Um, we tried to follow that very specific frameworks. Then we can collect data on that and find the best way to train people with this polarized framework, whether it’s truly intent or whether it’s actual time zone. When you get out of. It’s not going to retain that perfect time and zone. It’s also not going to make huge changes outside of it, right?

[01:07:15] Jonathan Lee: It’s not like it’s going to shift you into doing something that instead of 80 20, you’re doing something like 50, 50. It’s absolutely not going to do that. But you might shift 5%, uh, in an extreme case, but it’s much more closely going to be fractions of a percent, 1%, something like that. Outside of that tight 80 20 that said you’re still going to have daily intention tied in to where you need to be, um, with low, medium and high volume plans.

[01:07:39] Jonathan Lee: So they work well. Um, the cool part with adaptive training on this in particular with polarized plans is some people’s endurance capabilities are really good. And you’ll find yourself getting these endurance workouts, particularly on the weekends that tend to be longer. And when, um, so for a personal example, I had a three and a half hour one that was sitting right at like 70% or no, it was like a 65.

[01:08:04] Jonathan Lee: I did that one. And I said, that was really easy. And then the next week it bumped me up, uh, in terms of intensity and in terms of duration within those guardrails. So that, that next week I was like, oh, that one was moderate. That’s where I feel like I should be. And then it just continued to bring me along.

[01:08:19] Jonathan Lee: So it’s really cool. Um, you’ll get trained. Well, also a question from the same person says also, can I adjust workout time and adaptive training? Or is it only based on selected? He says race length, I assume. So workout alternates, make it so that you can adjust the time that you want to have there. And that’s super easy.

[01:08:36] Jonathan Lee: Um, and then if you’re talking about with, uh, using plan builder to decide what sort of workouts you’re doing and what sort of training you’re doing for your event, that’s where plan builder takes that into account. But once again, you can always use workout alternatives and you can change things around and make them longer if you want.

[01:08:51] Nate Pearson: Well, John means is if you had a 90 minute workout you on the alternate to choose 60 minutes and it will get you the same difficulty of workout. For that time period and you can move forward and that’s perfectly, perfectly fine way to train.

[01:09:04] Jonathan Lee: Yep, absolutely. Okay. Uh, the next one from Brian says my FTP four Watts per kilogram, typically plateaus in the March timeframe, uh, mentioning that, uh, and then says with no real FTP gains in the build phase can adapt to training, helped me break through this plateau.

[01:09:19] Nate Pearson: Yeah, for sure. This is, um, actually it’s an Instagram message beyond this and it says, uh, what he said is, Hey, I, you know, I’ve done the ramp test and I haven’t improved my ramp test result. I said, well, have you increased your threshold level at all? So, no, I don’t. I haven’t been doing it because I it’s.

[01:09:34] Nate Pearson: They’re hard. Um, so what you can do is not, um, you can, you don’t even have to really worry about the ramp test, but if you are, if you’re like, Hey, my threshold level, isn’t increasing in March, you can have a plan that does thresholds or build we’ll do increased threshold and really concentrate on those.

[01:09:55] Nate Pearson: And it really try to nail your nutrition and your sleep the night before, and then afterwards to work for recovery and your, uh, rest in between and progressively get those, move those up. And if you’re hitting those and those numbers are going up, you are getting faster. Even if your, uh, your ramp test result doesn’t change.

[01:10:14] Nate Pearson: That’s another thing is we’ve all experienced this where it happens to the ramp test, but also happens on like a hill climb after or something. You have like this, this way to measure your fitness. But then on that specific day, if you don’t perform to where you know you are, and this isn’t a, um, we have this at Geiger here.

[01:10:32] Nate Pearson: This isn’t like you weren’t sure, but you just know you did not do what you could. And this has happened with people. You do the ramp test, nailed it, you executed it. And then eight weeks later, you know, you got more, you got fitter, she’d do it again. And for some reason you didn’t have it all in that day.

[01:10:48] Nate Pearson: And what happens then is it can be demoralizing, right? Is you’re like, oh, I put all this effort in and I didn’t get any faster. But if you look at your levels and they steadily increased the whole time, you want a hundred percent cock faster. And if you did the ramp test again, let’s hear a level six threshold.

[01:11:03] Nate Pearson: And it doesn’t change. Who cares go to 7, 8, 9, 10 until you get to 10 minute, bump it up by percent and see what happens. It is. This takes some stress and pressure off the ramp test. Because even if you don’t perform better, as long as you see those levels increase, you are getting faster.

[01:11:22] Jonathan Lee: This is a paradigm shift, right?

[01:11:24] Jonathan Lee: In the sense that before we simply viewed our improvement through the lens of FTP, and that was it. But now with levels, you’re able to actually see every single step of the way when you did a 9.4, when you did a 5.7 and then the next day you did it, or next week you did a five point. That’s an actual improvement.

[01:11:43] Jonathan Lee: You’ve done it. You’ve improved. You’ve actually can say, Hey, it’s working. And you’ll notice that Brian, when you’re following a deaf to training in the sense that you’ll probably see it’s common for people to see improvements in the base phase, because what they’re doing is they’re really working on aerobic fitness, right?

[01:11:58] Jonathan Lee: And we’re talking about your aerobic threshold that we’re working on. That’s where you’re going to see a lot of it. Now, performance is not just defined by FTP performance can be driven by so many different things. And that’s what we really see in that build phase. Many times build is kind of a misnomer because people think, oh, it should build my FTP.

[01:12:16] Jonathan Lee: No build really drives the more specific fitness that you need to be able to perform it. Whatever’s discipline that you want. And this is where progression levels are. Really show that happening. For

[01:12:26] Nate Pearson: instance, if you’re on sustained build, like maybe the wind that you’re looking for is to hold your current FTP for longer and the ramp test, isn’t going to be able to.

[01:12:35] Nate Pearson: That I, you can hold you up to people on it might, depending on who you are, it might not. Um, that’s a huge window, right? Uh, the other one is the crit plan. We just talked about this. Your anaerobic levels could increase a ton, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to have an expression of an FTP change at all with a ramp test.

[01:12:55] Nate Pearson: And although in a crit like being super anaerobic, and if you went from three to 10, that’s a, that’s really huge. Like one to 10 people is huge, very, very, very, very big change. Uh, if you get to a level 10, you’re going to like destroy a punji crit relative to where you were at a one. Um, but maybe your rent doesn’t go up at all and you would, it can be demoralizing.

[01:13:16] Nate Pearson: You’re like, oh, I put all this effort in and I didn’t get any faster, but your levels went up consistently. You saw it all the time.

[01:13:24] Jonathan Lee: Hmm. Uh, Chuck sent in a question and Chuck, uh, you like all of us and like me initially, like all of us initially, you’re overthinking this and I can’t wait to help you with this one.

[01:13:33] Jonathan Lee: He says, does adaptive training target the medium or hard level response? Or should you be getting a sample of all perceived exertion levels? So what he’s asking about is on that survey is adaptive training, always trying to make your workouts hard or very hard, or a specific number. And like we talked about with the training plan, how the plans are structured.

[01:13:52] Jonathan Lee: Absolutely not. They are not trying to make every workout hard. That’s a, that’s a recipe for not improving you as an athlete. Does the recipe for burning you out? So each day is going to have different intentions and the goal is not to make it hard every day. So you should also not be looking at your survey results as kind of like a validation of where you are.

[01:14:10] Jonathan Lee: You just do your workouts, fill out the survey and it will constantly adjust in calibrate and get adjusted right to you. So, um, once again, don’t think that your survey responses and changing one point to another, something like that is really going to drive this, uh, you know, 180 degrees and make it, uh, change a lot.

[01:14:28] Jonathan Lee: Okay. It’s

[01:14:29] Nate Pearson: a continuum too. So it’s, it’s, it’s we understand that hard and very hard, like it means different things to different people and it’s not like, well, if I choose this one, the bucket it’s going to completely change, this is the, probably the biggest thing that I see, um, athletes specifically on the forum, because we’re trying to reverse engineer the system hung up on this is what should I exactly do.

[01:14:54] Nate Pearson: And just got to relax and think about just like, if you climbed a hill, how hard was it going up that hill? You can not be in your, your easiest gear spinning up, or it might be really hard and you could, you could respond to that of how hard

[01:15:07] Jonathan Lee: it was. That’s exactly. Yeah. Great example for it. Um, AGU, he says that he’s not training for any event and he asks this question.

[01:15:14] Jonathan Lee: He says, if I’m at a 10 for VO two max and an aerobic, but at a five for threshold, should I retest or try to increase the threshold progression level? Yes.

[01:15:25] Nate Pearson: Okay. That’s an interesting question. It’s going to matter. Okay. If you’re there’s different situations. So if you are specifically doing some kind of, uh, let’s say you’re doing like British hill climb where you’re just doing like three minutes, like that’s what you’re concentrating on three minute climbs on that.

[01:15:42] Nate Pearson: I would raise my FTP and just keep hitting that VO two max, especially if you’re really close to the race, that’s going to be the very specific one. Other than that, if you’re not in a training plan, If you’re in a, if you’re in a training plan and you’ve maxed out your VO two max, I would actually, your threshold’s probably not gonna be that low because VO two max would bring up your threshold.

[01:16:03] Nate Pearson: Um,

[01:16:04] Jonathan Lee: correlation. If you had maxed out your VO two max, then your threshold would be a five. I actually can’t think of a situation where that would be if you’re following one of our plans where that would be the case.

[01:16:13] Nate Pearson: Yeah. So it’d be tough. You could, uh, update your basically if, if I would say, yeah, update your FTP.

[01:16:21] Nate Pearson: If you’re a training just for, with train now and you’ve maxed out your VO two max, I would then just concentrate on your VO two or your threshold still do some VO, two max, but I would get that up first and then, and then raise it up. I think that would just be a fun way to wait a train to, to get both.

[01:16:39] Jonathan Lee: Yep. We had a question that says, do you have evidence that shows the depth of training users are improving their FTP more than users who are following it on that non adaptive training plan? Yep. Just like we shared earlier, um, there’s a 20% greater likelihood that they’re going to increase their walk, kg, fail workouts are down.

[01:16:53] Jonathan Lee: Um, absolutely. And we’re going to get even more data and be sharing more data, uh, all throughout this year. We’re really excited to see it through like the bulk of the training season and see how much more of a difference we can make, uh, for athletes. It’s also, we’re saying to, and pardon me for patting ourselves on the back here, but it’s like, oh, please do.

[01:17:10] Jonathan Lee: Yeah. Yeah. I’ll compliment you specifically, Nate. Um, uh, because the it’s one thing to train one athlete and make one athlete fast. But then when you’re dealing with thousands of athletes to move the needle connected or collectively forward, that’s really hard. Like that’s where it gets much more difficult.

[01:17:29] Jonathan Lee: If you talk to coaches that have a broad profile of athletes, they might be at a net zero. They might be at a net, small improvement, some sort of a drop, because it’s hard to train a lot of different athletes across the board. So when you actually have something like this, that shows that 20% likelihood that they’re going to increase, that’s a huge thing.

[01:17:47] Jonathan Lee: That’s a sign that you want to follow, right? Like that’s a, that’s a good scent. Stay on that track and keep going with that. So, yeah. Uh, endurance, sweat was the question. There we go. Um, this is a theoretical question again, uh, from Theo, he says, what would happen if an unfit person did adaptive training with high volume, would they survive?

[01:18:05] Jonathan Lee: So first of all, we have systems in place so that when, if you are a new athlete or a what in you, you phrase it as unfit athlete. But if you’re like a new athlete, we’re coming back to training and you select a high volume. We actually have systems in place to recommend low volume plans for those athletes.

[01:18:23] Jonathan Lee: So, first of all, it’s probably unrealistic. Um, but that said, if a person did start doing a high volume plan and they were in that scenario, they just wouldn’t progress as rapidly as another athlete would progressive would be my assumption and adaptive training would be walking them through with their pace that said, uh, once again, we’ve built in systems to avoid this situation so that athletes don’t pick, uh, volumes that are too high for them.

[01:18:48] Nate Pearson: I think of it as the same. Like if an athlete picks all dot recommended workouts, will they get in trouble? Like. Um, they probably will, uh, and the system will update and be like, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this. But if you keep doing it, even if we say don’t do it, like don’t come for us, please.

[01:19:05] Nate Pearson: Yeah, for sure.

[01:19:05] Jonathan Lee: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. There’s a level of accountability and responsibility. Um, okay. Joel says, what about custom workout levels? Will these be updated to match the trainer road workout levels? So we talked about workout levels levels before, and how ML analyzes the workout to be able to figure it out custom workouts are analyzed in a slightly different way.

[01:19:25] Jonathan Lee: Um, it’s a, it would be a long and confusing explanation that none of you want to listen to in terms of me explaining exactly the mechanics of why that’s the case at some point, yes, we do want to, uh, we, we do plan to address that, but that’s, uh, that could very well be involved and solved in other things that we’re, that we’re fixing right now.

[01:19:44] Jonathan Lee: Or it could be something that we address that. Yeah.

[01:19:47] Nate Pearson: So it does, uh, 99, I can’t say for absolutely sure. My confidence right now is 90% that with the outside stuff, custom workouts will be included in that. And that’s what our approach is, is that we’ll have one system analyze all workouts. Uh, and that’s what the goal is that.

[01:20:03] Nate Pearson: So we thought about, Hey, we could do something special for custom workouts, but we thought it’s probably better to go for the complete package at once with outside workouts and then get custom or on the get customed, tweak it wait forever long. It takes to do that and then start working on outside workouts.

[01:20:20] Nate Pearson: I think. But not everyone. The majority of athletes would rather have us nail the outside workout stuff and then get custom workouts than to have this more step release.

[01:20:30] Jonathan Lee: And for what it’s worth the differences between custom workouts and, and train road, library workouts, it’s not profound. It’s not like you’re talking like a gigantic shift either.

[01:20:39] Jonathan Lee: So, um, okay. Uh, Emir says due to personal circumstances, I’m only doing train now workouts rather than creating a training plan. Um, the danger with this is that I’m picking what I want rather than what I need. What are your thoughts on this? It’s a, it’s a valid point,

[01:20:54] Nate Pearson: right? Yeah. Um, it, the thought is. Uh, there’s a mix of what are your goals and what kind of, how much energy do you want to put into this?

[01:21:05] Nate Pearson: Because you can get, especially if you’re raising your levels again, you can get way faster with train now, but if you want to be more like air quotes, optimal for a specific race day or, or season, um, I believe plan builder will be the better performance, but it also comes with the, the, um, commitment in order to do these things and to have this sort of stuff.

[01:21:28] Nate Pearson: And if your life does not fit into that, and maybe it’s only a couple of weeks, or maybe it’s it’s months, or maybe it’s years, the better choice is to just train with how you feel and be motivated. It’s so much better. I have this with Kaibab and competing, pushed out. If you have a big race to come into that race, still motivated to train then to do so much where you get burnt out and before the race starts, you’re wishing it was over.

[01:21:56] Nate Pearson: That is a trap. I think if you’ve been training for a few years, almost every athlete probably has had that where you bite off more than you can chew. You started too early. Uh, the race gets pushed out because of COVID over and over and over again. And your one-year bill comes into a two and a half year bills.

[01:22:11] Nate Pearson: Uh, those can be hard, right? So doing that train now can be a little bit, uh, can take away some of that mental pressure and allow you to like training. Shouldn’t be fun. Uh, and I’m going to say it’s a mere, right? It’s cool too. You don’t have to be on that brink that edge all the time. This is the same thing with nutrition too.

[01:22:33] Nate Pearson: Right? If I always had to be on the edge of nutrition, everything has to be. This is the same kind of way of like, Hey, is it okay to eat food? I enjoy it. Cause it’s not optimal. We’d be like, yes, yes, you can eat food and enjoy it. Like, it’s a good thing. It’ll make your life better. And you’ll probably become even faster.

[01:22:51] Nate Pearson: That is like the perfect training plan, right? The pills to have enjoyment.

[01:22:55] Jonathan Lee: Yeah. If I too close to the sun, you’re bound to get burned with the fluctuations that life throws at you. For sure. Patrick says, can a weekly plan adapt for a race once a week, for example, easy working on Friday because of a race on Saturday.

[01:23:07] Jonathan Lee: So yeah, absolutely. Patrick, it’s all built into the system. Uh, just make sure that those races are on your calendar. You can’t expect after training to be clairvoyant and it’s not going to like, you know, it respects your privacy. It’s not going to somehow like, look into your calendar or something like that.

[01:23:20] Jonathan Lee: So

[01:23:21] Nate Pearson: we look at like race Ridge all across, we know your number and we like plop it in automatically. Like you’re you can’t

[01:23:28] Jonathan Lee: pull us. Yeah, that’d be amazing. So if you put the race on your calendar and then you use plan builder, when you’re building out your training plan, there’s an option where you can select, um, uh, use openers, uh, before your B and a and a races so that it can be really helpful.

[01:23:44] Jonathan Lee: Uh, if not, if you don’t do that, Advocate for this. And the more successful athletes podcast we record, the more we see people following low volume athletes, low volume plans with great success. You can do a low volume plan, and then you can also just use train. Now on that day, before that event to able to do something easy gear or pick whatever workout you like to do.

[01:24:03] Jonathan Lee: So there’s tons of ways that you can do that. Uh, Patrick, what’s the best way to do a different type of workout than the one scheduled example. The week before my recovery week, he says I had to take off. So I didn’t want to do all the endurance. After a week off the bike, a workout alternate, that’s the best way to be able to pick one, um, straight forward.

[01:24:21] Jonathan Lee: I hope we gave you enough information on workout alternatives before, if not there’s resources, um, that we will have, you can look at the train road, help center. There’s tons of resources that you can. On that they can help with you. You also get onboarded everybody. When you open up trainer road, you’ll get onboarded onto adaptive training.

[01:24:37] Jonathan Lee: So you’ll see it, whether you go to the website, open the app, anything else? So, um, okay. This question says, does the data training take into account any outside training, like doing CrossFit in between and scheduled training in trainer road?

[01:24:50] Nate Pearson: It does not yet. We have, we don’t have a way to specifically measure those.

[01:24:56] Nate Pearson: Um, we have some ideas around it and we’re not gonna, I, I shouldn’t say too much, but we’re thinking about it, but yeah, we don’t know. So if you’re, if you’re really nailing, like you’re doing some multi-sport thing where you’re rowing five hours per week inside of it, you’re gonna have to have some personal responsibility and be, as you feel like when you wake up, if you don’t feel like training or your motivations lower, or your Superstore to either skip that day or to, um, go from a productive to achievable, turn it down, shorter workout.

[01:25:29] Nate Pearson: And, uh, What that allows though, is the system will still, as long as you’re giving that kind of honest feed input into it, the system’s going to adapt and make sure you stay on track, which is the important part. Um, but yeah, it’s, we just need you to be able to be honest with

[01:25:46] Jonathan Lee: yourself, for sure. Yep. It will still try to adapt everything for you, but if you’re just tearing yourself apart in between your workouts and you’re doing it every single time between your workouts, so you can expect your workouts to not go well.

[01:25:59] Jonathan Lee: Right. That’s pretty logical. Um, it’ll try to make adjustments, but if you keep doing it to yourself, You know, to do better in that case. Um, okay. Next one, uh, for the post-workout surveys, I feel that I’m often between moderate and hard. Should I be choosing one over the other? Uh, once again, Justin, it’s not about choosing one over the other.

[01:26:19] Jonathan Lee: It’s about how it feels for you. Um, that’s a moderate to hard, it’s a common place for a lot of athletes to be able to fall, um, somewhere around there. And it’s just up to you once again, responding, moderate versus responding hard is not going to change things dramatically. Uh, so don’t worry about that.

[01:26:36] Jonathan Lee: Just try to be consistent. Yep. Yep. Okay. Uh, another question from Theo, he says, can adapter training ever recommend when to add volume, uh, possibly in the future? It’d be great. Um, then it could say, Hey, it looks like you could take on more or Hey, the execution to take on less, which I actually think would be a whole lot more common with

[01:26:56] Nate Pearson: types of athletes.

[01:26:57] Nate Pearson: Exactly. Right. The step that we need for that is the outside workout stuff, because we can suggest more volume until we have fine grain. Understanding of all of your cycling training.

[01:27:09] Jonathan Lee: Yep. Uh, my heart rate monitor dropped during my last workout. So my heart rate data was low for the whole workout. Does that affect the adaptations?

[01:27:19] Jonathan Lee: No. Nope. Good there. Um, okay. Next one. What determines the progression levels and how do you know I’m getting better? So it’s all based off of what you’re doing, uh, Alexia. So in this case, um, the progression levels are based off of the workouts that you’ve done. Now, there may be a situation where for some reason you’re a level two and you went and you just picked a level seven and you were able to nail it.

[01:27:42] Jonathan Lee: Maybe it’s like an energy system that you have. Addressed in a long time. Um, but maybe you’re really naturally good at it. I don’t know if you go from that two to the seven, you’ll likely see a spot where you won’t suddenly be a seven. You might be something in between there. And that’s because our system knows that those big shifts like that, sometimes we can sense.

[01:28:02] Jonathan Lee: Are you sure

[01:28:03] Nate Pearson: I’m positive a hundred percent. You’ll be a surgeon, but what your next workout might be, might be different.

[01:28:09] Jonathan Lee: Yes. Okay. So that’s

[01:28:11] Nate Pearson: the John has had some, there’s some inside stuff that’s happening that I think John is describing, but it’s what you do. So if you, I think about weightlifting too, if you convince 200 pounds, wow.

[01:28:22] Nate Pearson: You can mention 200 pounds. That doesn’t mean your next workout. We want to put you at two. Yeah. If you want to sit you in there, maybe we want to do higher reps at 180, right? Like, uh, the same thing with, if you can do in 40 minutes at threshold, that doesn’t mean we want to put you to 42 minutes of threshold, the next workout, but we do want to tell you, Hey, congratulations, you can now do 40 minutes as a threshold.

[01:28:42] Nate Pearson: That next one might be two by 20. We don’t know it’s going to depend on a lot of stuff. Uh, and that is why, um, that, that is how it works. Um, with the display of what your production level is

[01:28:55] Jonathan Lee: Theo asks, do you ever anticipate the professional coaches will use their athlete’s progression levels to determine if they will compete at certain events?

[01:29:03] Nate Pearson: No, because it like, well, so yes, coaches could look at it to understand a better understanding of how fit their athlete is. But if there is a code. Unless you’re just not trained at all. Who goes, you know what? Your anaerobic isn’t high enough for this crit just don’t do it. Uh, that is probably not a coach that I would want because the experience of doing that event, like, uh, I’ve, I’ve under racist thinking.

[01:29:30] Nate Pearson: I’m going to get smashed and I’ve won too. If you don’t know, who’s going to show up, you don’t know what’s going to happen inside the race. There’s race experience. There’s so many benefits to a race where thinking that, Hey, my Whopper kg isn’t here. So I’m not even going to participate or my level’s not here.

[01:29:45] Nate Pearson: So I don’t want anticipate. I don’t think that’s, that should be done for anybody. Um, they’re trying to think that there’s some team aspect where there could be change a GC rider or something based on levels back totally happened where say John and I are the same weight, the same FTP. I’m a level two threshold.

[01:30:05] Nate Pearson: John’s a level 10. They might change the GC rider from me to John, because they’re like, Hey, we, I know that FTP doesn’t show up because of the workouts you’ve done recently. John’s obviously the stronger writer. So we’re going to support John now. And Nate, you’re going to, you’re going to be a domestique for him.

[01:30:19] Nate Pearson: That could totally happen. But I don’t think any coach, especially for age groupers should be like, yeah, you should just sit this one out, especially if you’ve been working towards it that I wouldn’t want that coach.

[01:30:29] Jonathan Lee: Yep. I agree with that. Uh, this one says, can it, after training be useful for attracts splinter Akilah specialists, we we’ve recommended that for track cyclists, that they, so our gravity plan tends to be one that actually is a somewhat complimentary profile for some track events, but not all.

[01:30:46] Jonathan Lee: Um, and in that case, it will adapt for you and we’ll work on that. Absolutely. But, uh, we, we have a built specifically for, like you said, kilos specialists, right? Like that’s like not, um, that’s not something that we’ve built for specifically. Uh, Mike says, oh,

[01:31:03] Nate Pearson: sorry, I’m sorry, John. You still could though, you understand that that’s going to be mostly, uh, depending on the discipline VO, two max, anaerobic, or, and, or sprint, and you could then use the level system work on those.

[01:31:16] Nate Pearson: Have step progression inside of it. Add your endurance work inside of you. You could do something custom, uh, based on what you understand, but it would be, I wouldn’t say it’s, we don’t have a great system for someone who doesn’t understand training to just like sit in there and be, uh, an amazing track racer.

[01:31:35] Jonathan Lee: Yep. Yeah, you can work your way through it. And levels helps a ton with that. Uh, Mike says the 20 minute FTP test obsolete, or can we still use it if we like, I prefer it to the ramp test? Sure, absolutely. Yup. And in this case, uh, adaptive training is going to work well with all of them and it’s going to be able to further calibrate things for you.

[01:31:53] Jonathan Lee: So it’ll, it’ll go. It’ll go. Well, uh, Kathy says, if I do a trainer road sprint workout, then extend the warmup and cool down to endurance will then endurance portion be counted, uh, in your progression. So will you get credit for the endurance portion of it? Not

[01:32:06] Nate Pearson: today, but in the, uh, workout, bounce, workout stuff that is part of the system that’s going to be built into it.

[01:32:13] Nate Pearson: So for instance, you do two by 20 threshold and then you added, I’ll say something extreme five hours of endurance today. You don’t get credit for those five hours of difference. Um,

[01:32:26] Nate Pearson: But push yourself ahead and endurance the next time, if you want it to, but that is not included. And that is a, um, something that we want to add to the system. But also that’s not very common. Like the most common thing right now is you do two by 20, maybe extended 20 minutes. It’s not enough to like really move your endurance levels inside of that.

[01:32:43] Nate Pearson: Uh, but again, with outside work outs, that is very common. I did a hill climb and then I rode for four hours that happens all the time. And, uh, that’s where we want to have that system to give you credit for multiple energy systems. And John’s, as John said too, it’s like how you stack them up inside of the workout.

[01:32:59] Nate Pearson: Then you did the hill climb and you added some anaerobic hiccups in the middle of it. Like, how does that adjust it? Um, it gets very complex and that is what we’re trying to solve. Yeah,

[01:33:10] Jonathan Lee: absolutely. Uh, this might be the last question that we have and thanks to everybody for joining us. So this has been fantastic.

[01:33:16] Jonathan Lee: If you want to use adaptive training, go to trainer road.com, sign up. If you haven’t yet, it’s the best time ever to be able to do it. It’s super exciting. And it’s only going to improve from here. If your account has been, if you’ve put it on hold for any period of time, go and sign up. Now it’s the time to do it.

[01:33:32] Jonathan Lee: Mike says, how about other tests that do a panel where they’ll test various different profiles for different durations? Well, those adjusted, uh, he says like, how do those compare? And I want to be clear on this one. This is a really big difference. You don’t have to like stress, test yourself into the ground and test every possible duration to be able to figure this out.

[01:33:52] Jonathan Lee: This is one of like a. Training is only effective if you do it right. And training is only effective. If it’s something that’s realistic to complete moving forward as well. So if you have to do tests that are so arduous and completely run you down, that’s not going to be something where you’re actually going to get a good snapshot of your fitness on that day.

[01:34:12] Jonathan Lee: Anyway. And then you’re purely reliant on that one test. That’s very complicated to be able to guide everything there are moving forward. So adapt to training, just looks at what you’re doing and looks at what you’re able to do as you go. And then it makes those adjustments. That’s why it’s so good.

[01:34:27] Nate Pearson: That’s also why we use the, we did the ramp test because on those tests where you test multiple energy systems, um, they are like duration specific. Where, how hard can you go for this amount of time? So how, how hard can you go for five minutes? And you have to, when you start, you have to guess what your average power is going to be.

[01:34:45] Nate Pearson: And if you don’t guess it, right, the test is going to be valid because you’re either going to go up a bunch or go down a bunch. And if you could guess it. Why do the test at all? So what happens is, um, you can get an inaccurate measurement inside of all of those, because it is the, you have to know what it is.

[01:35:05] Nate Pearson: 20 minute test to that is why we went away from the 20 minute test. The ramp test is because hold for 20 minutes, even five watt difference inside of that can make a completely different outcome of what you’re going to be. So that’s why we did the ramp test to make it more consistent because that step thing, um, it, you get put in the same way each time.

[01:35:24] Nate Pearson: But on top of that, if we did, it’s like that, that measurement is once every, I don’t know, you can do 4, 6, 8 weeks, whatever it is that measurement is there. And then it doesn’t adapt afterwards where maybe you haven’t done VO two max for awhile. So it is low. But then once you get in like two or three workouts, it’s like, you increase your view to max very quickly.

[01:35:48] Nate Pearson: And that’s what our system wants to do. I understand that it’s not going to be linear and all systems in order to increase it. And also then you can see, as you work out with the progression levels, these systems improving, or these workouts zones, I keep, please don’t blame us or using weight, keep going back and forth on this.

[01:36:08] Nate Pearson: And someone flamed his last time for this, uh, even after I corrected myself, uh, which just cut this out and I’m sorry, as you go through these workouts zones, uh, it will, uh, you, you can see that you’re getting better and that is super duper important too. Or you can see if you’re stagnating, that’s the other, that’s like the flip side of it or going down, um, that could happen for people.

[01:36:30] Nate Pearson: And they got to look at your whole life about why

[01:36:33] Jonathan Lee: it’s happening. Yup. And it’s also important to recognize that if your levels go down, that doesn’t mean that it’s a failure. That doesn’t mean that it’s bad. It’s just what you do. Right. So I’ve had that absolutely. Where I had huge spike in life stress this year, while I was going through a training plan.

[01:36:49] Jonathan Lee: And suddenly I just could not do my workouts that I, that I thought I could do. So that week I wasn’t able to complete a workout, filled out the survey data that next week I got easier workouts and it was all right, even that next workout, because I had overlapping workouts in the same zone, I got easier workouts and I was able to complete them.

[01:37:06] Jonathan Lee: And it’s so nice to be able to know that whatever the numbers. The workout feels like the right workout and it gives me what I need. And that’s just awesome. Uh, that, that’s what we want. There’s one more question from Victor, he says for a crit racer, you often talk about repeatability. We’ll adapt to training, address this by focusing on level progression instead of just FTP increases via ramp test, and absolutely Victor, the plans are designed to prioritize the sort of profile power profile.

[01:37:33] Jonathan Lee: Like you said, in this case, Victor, that you need for that sort of event or that sort of training plan. So that means that, uh, so VO two max, there’s a lot of different types of VOC max intervals, right? Those repeatable hard off on sort of intervals are key for crit racing. They’re key for cyclocross that sort of.

[01:37:52] Jonathan Lee: So in those plans, you’ll notice that you aren’t just going to get a VO two max workout. That’s having you do four to five minute intervals, right. And replacing those on offs that you had with that it’s much more nuanced than that. It doesn’t view a five minute VO, two interval, the same as five minutes of off and on.

[01:38:09] Jonathan Lee: If you use those totally separately and it’s really intelligent on how it can deal with that. So yeah, it’ll prioritize what matters to you on race day? Uh, Victor

[01:38:17] Nate Pearson: repeatability to is built into the difficulty metric because that is, I mean, there’s a ton of stuff built into it, but it, that is, if you repeat more, it makes the work on.

[01:38:30] Jonathan Lee: Sean. The last question that Sean Phillips has is he says I’d love it. If he could make for a nine day week as well, I could get so much more done. Um, we’re working on that. Sean, it’d be great if we could somehow make the week, the nine days even added onto the weekend, even better. So I’m just joking. We can’t change calendars.

[01:38:46] Jonathan Lee: That’s just what it is. Okay. Uh,

[01:38:48] Nate Pearson: with everything that we’ve talked about as a nine day cycle and yes, like.

[01:38:53] Jonathan Lee: Yeah, I think he’s actually talking about us changing that to, um, to the calendar here it

[01:38:57] Nate Pearson: is. Yeah. Two extra weekend days. Yeah. Love it.

[01:39:01] Jonathan Lee: Yeah. All for it. Yeah, exactly. Um, alright, thanks everybody for joining us on this.

[01:39:07] Jonathan Lee: I hope this gave you a lot of information on adaptive training. A favor that I would love to ask of you is to share adaptive training with people that you know, so other cyclists talk to them about it. Tell them to check it out and go to trainer road.com. If you have a trainer road account and it’s been, and it’s been on hold for awhile, renew, come back, give it a shot and test us, put Nate and I to the wood here and see if we actually are backing up what we’re saying.

[01:39:31] Jonathan Lee: It will make you faster. I promise you. I’m confident in that. We’re all confident. And that’s why we’ve shifted to this point. So go to trainer road.com, sign up, tell your friends. Maybe not the ones you want to beat, but tell your friends, get them there, get them to sign up for chain of road. And we’ll talk to you all.

[01:39:47] Jonathan Lee: I think, uh, let’s see. In another week, uh, with coach Chad, we’ll be back here to answer more stuff,

[01:39:51] Nate Pearson: John, this is keep your friends get faster. You actually get faster. Two sisters happens if they progress, like your motivation goes up. That friendly competition with a true friend is awesome. If it’s someone you’re going to go national champions together against don’t tell them they’re probably not your

[01:40:06] Jonathan Lee: friend either.

[01:40:07] Jonathan Lee: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah. Tell everybody, get them to sign up, get them to check it out and get faster. Uh, if you have questions, go to the trainer road forum and yeah, we’ll talk to you all next week with coach Chad, more deep dives and exciting stuff to make you faster. Thanks everybody. Check out our training.

[01:40:23] Jonathan Lee: Take care. Bye.