If you race XCO and you aren’t using your suspension lockout you are leaving time on the table. Clean bars are great but I ultimately am interested in results.
For the trail bikes you mention there isn’t a strong reason for having a lockout level. Most of them have compression damping on the fork and shock and given their “trail” status the thought is you are more willing to take the time to put your hand on that switch trail riding than you would be during a race. Racing you want to lock and unlock with a lot of frequency depending on different sections of the trail and you don’t want to take your hands off the bars to make those changes.
I don’t have a remote lockout on my big travel bike but I can reach and make the adjustment if I’m so inclined but for the most part I just run it wide open all the time. The XCO bike is a completely different story.
and definitely agree re: the lockout and XCO. In case it was not clear, all of my musings and opinions are use-case specific. Both as to trails / types of climbing (you’d generally want to be in traction control vs. rigid for almost all of them) and type of racing (all 50 mile plus)
Do they put sensors on their XCO bikes for testing or is this just sort of from Nino’s recall of a lap? As far as I know twinloc is a mechanical system and Rockshox doesn’t have an electric suspension set up like Fox’s Live Valve
In general, can lockout on shock / fork normally be retro fitted? Previous bikes I have had, always had from factory, so never really thought about it.
I haven’t checked the 2021 Top Fuel but I did like the look of their grip shift style lockout. The other bikes with remote lockout and dropper post lever on the left look very cluttered to me. I’m positive the benefits are worthwhile, but it’s something I wonder might factor in.
IIRC it depends on the fork / shock, it needs to have a provision for a lockout. You should be able to check the fork specs online but i would expect that most high-level forks do have it.
sometimes it looks like a little twisty thing on the crown with a clear attachment for a cable (that would then pull on or release the doohickey to lock or release the fork). I know i’m not being clear right now so maybe this picture will help.
something to consider if you have the scott twin loc system - you can flip it and move it to the right side and it’s very functional on the top of the right bar. That frees up the left side for the dropper.
Yes it can but there are a lot of “ifs” along the way. If your shock isn’t currently fitted for remote lockout then you would have to change the damper to add that capability. If you have a Fox it’s not terribly hard to do presuming your shock can take a push to unlock damper cartridge. In general it is easier to buy a fork/shock with the remote damper already installed but to answer your question, it can usually be accomplished but will depend a lot on the manufacturer.
They didn’t explain their methodology for gathering the data unfortunately. I think the graph and percentages would be a bit too specific to be attributed to memory recall but I don’t know exactly how that data was gathered.
Aesthetics are obviously a personal preference thing, but I really don’t care for the look of the grip shift style lockouts, just as I don’t care for the look of grip shifters. I’d personally take the Bontrager one over the grip shift style one. Not to mention the grip shift style wouldn’t work with my preferred grips, and as someone that has dealt with carpal tunnel, my grips are not a very negotiable item. Different strokes for different folks.
Plenty of folks would likely be racing XCM races on the Epic EVO and Scalpel SE and similar bikes, so I think it’s reasonable some may want a remote lockout on them. I don’t think it’s completely fair to assume anyone riding those bikes is just riding them for casual trail riding where a remote may not be needed (although I’d argue could still be very useful). I agree it’s not necessary on bigger travel bikes, but I think there’s an argument for them on these shorter travel bikes that aren’t quite XC race machines but might be someone’s preference for a longer and/or gnarlier XCM race.
Okay, I was just curious. I know the downhill teams have been using data collection for a while and now with wireless shifting they have data on that side of things but I haven’t seen much about data collection for the XC racers.
Maybe I am reading this graph wrong, but it looks like a description of how much time Nino uses a lockout and other suspension settings compared with elevation change?
I think this is “What Nino Does.” While interesting, I do not think it is reasonable to say that this is evidence that time is being left on the table. Everyone wants to be like Nino (even MvdP and myself included), but it does not mean that being like him in equipment choices will mean going faster.
It really isn’t an assumption it was just me answering the question as to why those bikes not spec’d with remote lockouts. I’m not saying that you can’t race a bike like the Epic EVO for XCO, but there is a reason they spec the S-Works EVO version with a flip switch on the shock and not a remote lockout and also not with the brain which effectively a non-remote activated compression damper (lockout).
The reason is that those bikes are generally more trail oriented bikes and trail oriented bike riders generally are willing to reach down and flip a switch where XCO racers are less inclined to do so. Hence the brain on the Epic and the remote lockout on both the fork and shock on the Cannondale Scalpel.
My answer wasn’t really my opinion more of an explanation as to why those bikes aren’t spec’d that way. I agree with you people will use their bikes however they want to and for the right amount of money you can convert the suspension on the Epic EVO to one that is locked out by a remote. But Specialized didn’t do it that way from the factory because that is not how most users will use that bike. The Cannondale SE is the same. Spec’d as a trail bike so no remote damping though you can dampen the compression through a lever. You can also add compression damping to that fork if you so choose.
In terms of grips, it’s definitely personal preference. I just watch people agonize over cleaning up their bars and if that is the desired end result hard to argue against the grip style remote lockout.
It’s not really. I don’t own a Scott, I’m not Swiss, I don’t have Twinloc on my bike, I don’t have a 400 watt FTP, I just used it as an example of a high level athlete choosing to run a suspension lockout on his bike at the very pointy end of the racing scene. If I said “Nino does it” and left the thread there wouldn’t be a lot of value to that other than me being a fanboy haha. I’m pretty sure I heard Kate Courtney say she uses her suspension lockout on her bike frequently, there is a ton of info on PFP using it and honestly I could go on and on. I image basically every world cup rider uses either a non-remote activated compression damper (The Brain) or a remote lockout on their bikes. Given they are eeking out every marginal advantage they can for their setup, it seems to me if it wasn’t faster they would remove it to save weight.
That said, I guess if you are going to argue that a suspension that compresses is just as fast as one that does not (climbing), there isn’t much I will be able to say to convince you otherwise.
Slight tangent, does “lockout” perform the same on a 100mm suspension as it does on a 120/130mm suspension (shock or fork)? Or is it a percentage thing?
I understand you were just explaining why they’re not coming with a remote lockout, but I think more people race those types of bikes than many people and maybe even manufacturers appreciate, that’s all. Personally, if I’m going to use a lockout, I’d prefer a remote rather than reaching down to flip the switch. It’s just easier for me and my little T-Rex arms (I’ve got a very negative Ape Index). But you’re absolutely right that, in many cases, you can just add it if you want it, just as people get rid of it when they don’t want it on an XC bike.
As for the grips, I run Ergon GA2s. They have a short grip for running with twist shift, but you have to run it on the right (they don’t make a short left grip), which I don’t like. I’m not looking to run a lockout right now, but if I was, I think the Bontrager option is a nice one. I think if you’re running a lockout and dropper, clean bars are kinda out the window anyways just because of the number of cables.
This is sort of where I am coming from too. I like the idea of a little more suspension and a little slacker bike, to help me on the decents (my weakness), so the Evo would be a great race bike for me - probably a better race bike than the reguar Epic. Similar for the SE vs regular Scalpel. But the lack of remote lockout potentially changes that - as what I may benefit on the down - i potentially give up on the ups…
Not necessarily. A true “lockout” effectively disables the fork/shocks ability to compress, giving you the best possible power transfer. Most trail/enduro type bikes “climb” switch firms up the low speed compression circuit, and makes the suspension firmer and moves less, thus accomplishing a lot of the same. Often the high speed compression circuit remains open, so that you will still get suspension on fast hits.
