Kudos for being able to get in 9-10hrs of riding even with a demanding schedule and a family!
Don’t overthink it! I’m not an expert by any stretch of imagination, and my FTP is definitely nothing to write home about (250-285W depending on time of year at 64-66kg). But I’ve managed to take sprint points, stay relevant in most races, and take a few podiums at longer gravel events (5-8hrs), so I can’t be that bad After newbie gains slowed down, most of my other gains came from things like extending TTE, raising power at long durations, efficient riding (bike position, group dynamics), nutrition/hydration, learning to suffer mentally, etc. I’m still green in many areas, but always plenty to learn and improve on!
If you’ve only been riding 2 years, made it to 320W FTP and have steadily improved, I think you’re on the right path. It takes some time to build that engine that lets you race for hours without imploding, just keep plugging away at it! You’re doing great so far.
ETA: Not to get too far off-topic, but your equipment choice may become a limiter eventually. Even something as simple/cheap as tire choice and pressure could make a significant impact!
2 years is not a long time to get good enough to hand at the front, so good on ya @Mumblin for what you’ve done so far. There could be areas of riding where your technical skills could be holding you back a little from making the leap up a little further - for those things you just have to keep practicing your skills off road.
I like everything that @kurt.braeckel has said in his advice to you. You mention that you only get up to one event a month that is like a race and think that is a decent amount to consistently apply what you learn from each event you finish. When is your A event by the way? I know that mine is coming up in April and I’ve done 3 events since last October and I’ve taken something away from each of them that has allowed me to perform better in each subsequent event. I’m not talking fitness here - but I am talking about preparation for the events and goals for the events. I’ve got two more and I’m already fired up for the next one so that I can execute my race day even better.
I’d encourage you to have process goals for each event and then write down or make mental notes of what you learned that you can take to the next event. Fitness and durability (the new buzz word) will come with time and even with your schedule you’ll do the best you can.
The best simulation rides are actual events. Use the events to sharpen your skills. Keep getting better and honing in on your race day skills.
Thanks, I’ve been slowly chipping away at the gains. and genuinely like going out and doing intervals. I defiantly need to extend out the time I can ride at threshold. Again not knowing what I don’t/didn’t know most of my focus has been on building FTP as that’s what seems to be a popular topic of books/podcasts/youtube etc… Fortunately I didn’t come to cycling form an off the couch state, I had been training for marathons and 50ks. Prior to that I spent 11 years in the sport of jiu jitsu, which while not nearly as aerobic as cycling or running it was still training.
I’m still on $700 used carbon Jamis renegade… But it was hard to argue with a bike for that price that came with a power meter. I’ve upgraded it and now have carbon wheels and don’t see anything that is limiting me at this point but as weird as it sounds to say I hope I can get to the point where my equipment is my limiter not my fitness. I just got some faster tires, the Schwalbe g one RS and they “feel” noticeably faster.
I agree, I got a MTB this year and that really opened my eyes to some shortcomings on my bike handling and body positioning. Its something I’m working on.
Sounds like we have a very similar race schedule. My A event is BWR Ca. in April as well. I have also done 3 events since the fall. I was supposed to have 4th but I got COVID. The once a month racing is about the max Ill hit in a given year so far. I just took a look and I’ve done 11 events in two years so that is comes out to less that one every other month. It seems with gravel in Ca most events are stacked together in the first 1/3 of the year. So during that time it will be once a month roughly. Not all gravel, some small XC races for fun as well.
I have started to keep notes on what I felt were limiting factors in a given race. They provide something to work on other than just fitness. I’m realizing this is all just another puzzle and while fitness is an aspect that cannot be ignored there are more pieces than just that as you start moving up in the pack.
I’m still trying to figure out the first 1/3 of the races. In BWR Ca last year I internationally set a limiter on the first big climb so as not to got too deep in the red. This cost me when we hit the single track as it was a complete traffic jam with the pace going so slow most had to dismount and walk. I just don’t have enough experience to have the confidence to know where I can push it and where to hold back.
In 2022 every race I did was usually a distance I had never ever ridden so I was completely in the dark on pacing and just trying to figure it out as I went. I’ve got a better idea of pacing and don’t blow up but I’ve also come to the line feeling like I left to much in the tank. My pacing still needs work. I didn’t mean to sound like I had it nailed in my earlier posts, I just didn’t want people thinking I went ham from the gun and couldn’t figure out why I cant hold power later in the race…
I have noticed my gains starting to plateau, but then again so is my CTL. I have been training at roughly the same volume from my base phase now into my build. As I described above I’ve been trying to stick to 2 hard days a week being intervals days, a long day and the rest Z2. Given the hours stay consistent its hard to drive CTL up continuously throughout the season with just increasing intensity on the interval day. I think these longer race sim rides, “tired 20” etc. discussed here will drive it up some. I don’t do too much tempo work and not to much sweet spot. I can see how I can drive CTL up more by replacing some of my Z2 with tempo or sweet spot. I had been reluctant to do so given some of things I’ve heard on podcasts/youtube. I do usually come away from races thinking I need to ride more SS or tempo as I spend a fair amount of time there in the race.
Do you all agree that replacing some z2 with tempo or SS is a sustainable way to drive up CTL in a build phase, so long as it doesn’t seem to impact your higher intensity days? I haven’t done it yet so I cant say if it impacts power on the hard days or not. I imagine some weeks with a lighter work schedule I could do this, and on more demanding weeks Id probably keep it more to what I’ve been doing.
My totally anecdotal non-scientific based response from a fellow gravel racer… go ride more gravel. Things happen on dirt that can’t be simulated on a trainer. An unexpected patch of chunky new gravel, mud, etc…
I’ll be there again, 3rd year in a row! How’d you do in 2023?
BWR is challenging because of the massive pinch points (i.e. single track). Two suggestions - line up closer to the front and don’t hold too much back (without blowing up), as it’ll cost you. I went out too hot in 2022 and paid for it. I paced a lot more evenly last year, but ended up being slower through the early single track due to traffic (partly because I wasn’t early enough to the start and lined up further back).
Since you mention BWR, which arguably features more technical sections compared to many gravel races, you’ll want to ride more technical gravel so as not to drop too much time. And since you’re newer to technical riding, get more tire than you think you’ll need. I went into 2022 on 33mm slicks and quickly realized that was not enough tires for my skills for that course (lack thereof after no outdoor riding for 5-6 months before the race). Going up to 40mm Terraspeeds cost me time on road, but paid off on anything technical, especially descending.
I do the wafer distance, I’ve come to realize being even marginally competitive at the longer distance is not in the cards yet. Not that I’m doing much better at the middle distance…
I finished 36/128 for my age group and 119/500+ overall. I ran 35c Panaracer gravelking ss+ last year and will be on the 45/40c Schwalbe g one Rs this year. It is a bit more technically demanding course. I actually feel pretty comfortable out there on that course but the rough terrain there does take a toll on me and that’s what I feel is a leading cause of the cramping. This is the race where I finished feeling like I still have some left in the tank. Probably paced a bit to conservatively in the beginning. In regards to my off road skills while they need improvement for sure I actually feel they are better than many of the people around me who are not at he front of the race. I find my self passing more people on the dirt than the road. Part of this could be to people just imploding at that point. In almost every race I look around at the beginning and I’m thinking to my self how in the heck do these folks around me plan on sustaining this pace or even being able go decently hard later in the race. This is in regards to the mid pack riders not the front group.
The cramps I experience don’t seem to last. They are like a check engine light for me. They will come on quick but if I back the effort off a little I can keep them at bay. It really seems to be the chucky rough stuff that gets me. I did the Hardman race in Orange County recently and the descent there was pretty rough, when I finished that section I felt the cramps come on. I let the legs dangle for a few moments in a glorious tail wind and took in some drink mix and that kept them at bay. From what I’ve heard the latest research on cramping seems to indicate that its is typically associated with pushing beyond ones limits more so that hydration or electrolyte issues.
FWIW that’s a great result. If you post a link your Strava I can check your segments and give you an idea of where you dropped time. This year’s route is likely going to change, though not sure how much, but it will give you a starting point. Are you doing the wafer again or stepping up to waffle?
I think even this is changing…some races are all all-out barn burners for the majority of the races now.
For example, the Dustbowl 100 is basically a very long crit on gravel for at least the first half of the race…first year I did it, we were doing VO2 Max efforts out of every corner. I finally popped at mile 35, but my buddy who hung on to mile 50 said it remained the same until he popped. At ~mile 50, there is a pretty steep climb which helps separate the wheat from the chaff, so maybe the efforts evened out after that selection, I dunno…but even still, that is a LONG time for those types of crit-like efforts.
Much smaller race - I did the Badlands Gravel Battle last year where 40/80/120mi start at the same time, and it was practically full-gas from the end of neutral. We got split into a group of ~20 within 5 minutes, helped by a cattle grate, left turn, and a herd of horses By first aid station at mile 20 the group was a dozen strong. Ten of us entered the second aid station at mile 40 and minutes later 6 of us were clear. That split again into 2x3 (two 80s and a 120 in front, two 120s and a 80 in 2nd group). That was the podium for the day. I popped off around mile 55, suffering a flat not long after, but managing enough separation by staying with the front group to keep my podium spot.
I normalized 250W (out of about 270-275W FTP) for two hours. I remember thinking how ridiculous it was to do so much threshold and above less than two hours into an 8 hour race … but that was the power demands. The 80 milers kept hacking at each other until they finally split with ~10mi to go.
Sent you a follow request on strava. I’m doing Redlands Strada Rossa, South Bay Brewbaix (free) and some of the BWR recon rides as available leading up to the race. Let me know if you want to join in on any of these rides and also share notes on the events. The only ones that I’ll treat as race sims are Strada Rossa and SB Brewbaix - the others recon rides will be more endurance base and recon based to test my equipment, hone some skills, learn the sectors and socialize too.
I’ll also be doing a couple recon rides prior to BWR as well, though haven’t decided where yet. Friday will be a ~2-3hr Z2, and Saturday will be 1-1.5hr easy. Will probably go out to black canyon to survey the sketchy descent as I lost time there in 2022. I’m flying down with 3 other guys … can always meet up for a ride if it works out. I’m staying right by the race start, but we’ll be driving on Fri/Sat to our route.
If anything it will be great to meet you and your friends. By that time the race course will be announced and there should be a lot of buzz about it and any sectors worth surveying. Let’s stay in touch and see if we can get a recon ride in.
This is how I approach the climbs on those rides. I want to go hard, but I know it needs to be sub-threshold because I’m doing 70-80 min worth of climbing. So yeah, exactly as you say. It ends up being sweet spot out of necessity, but is quite stochastic in nature and really effective training.
Well I did a ramp test this morning and got an FTP of 310 vs the 320 which was a bit more of guesstimation having to try and get my power meter and my trainer to agree on a power… I used 3 different devices to record this ramp test then used DC rainmakers analyzer tool look at the results. To say this was a giant PITA is an understatement.
My last ramp test was the first one I did outside of the trainerroad platform. I just built one in training peaks and went for it. The problem is that my power meter and the trainer don’t put out the same numbers so this makes things tricky as most of my training is outdoors but the FTP test is on the trainer.
I tried my best to compare the power between the two and it seemed like it the trainer read about 11% below the PM. So I took the FTP from the test and added 11%. It seems at different wattages its off by different %'s
For this test I recorded it using my wahoo which took the trainers data, used the 4iiii app to record the data from the crank arm PM and threw on my road Assioma PM and used a garmin watch to record that data. Fun stuff…
Highest 1min power from the wahoo was 401 vs 414 for the 4iiii. Assioma was more inline with the wahoo. Since I race and train mostly on the 4iiii PM Ill use that data. So 414 x 0.75= 310.
When I compare the data from my previous test in mid December to todays test I’m 10 watts higher today just using the wahoo data. So at least its moving in the right direction…
This picture probably makes no sense to anyone but me but here it is for those who are curious.
Purple line is todays test wahoo data
Blue line is the test from December using the wahoo
Red line is 4iiii data
Green line is Assioma data
Ive looked at Strada Rossa a few times but never done it. I haven’t heard of the South Bay ride, ill have to check that out. Im always looking for new people to ride with. So that would be great.
I live fairly close to the race ~45min away so I will probably do some recon rides in the weeks leading up to the race. Hopefully Ill see you out there. Its crazy how big that race is. Is the Black Canyon sector on the long course, I don’t remember it from the Wafer?
Start to top of Twin Oaks climb - I’d try to line up closer to front and dig deeper, if you can. You’ve already dropped a fair bit of time by end of the climb, you’ll need to make it up in order to stay inside of top 100.
Questhaven descent - looks like you got held up quite a bit at the gates, starting closer to front will help. Your dirt descending/handling skills cost you a bit of time too.
Start of Hodges - looks like you make it through the start of single track just fine, but then get held up later, which costs you a LOT (5 mins vs. my time)
Raptor Ridge climb - You maintained good pace up, which is another big bottleneck
Nothing really of note between here and double peak
Double Peak - Great job sustaining the pace, the memory hurts
Dubbelberg Twistenweg - same as before, technical descending skills, though you still had a great time
Looks like you did a good job minimizing aid stations, I only see about 5-6 minutes. For 5.5hrs that’s decent, but you should try to make it through with a single stop in Bandy. Or better yet, skip Bandy as it’ll be busier and make a quick stop on your way back at Hodges, though that may be too long of a stretch especially if hot. Bring three 750mL bottles with you (one in jersey) and you’ll at least make it to Bandy. For comparison, I had 7 minutes of stoppage, which included two pee breaks and two chain lube breaks. My goal is 3-5mins, my mistake was not taking hand-up bottles early when they were available. There was none on offer by my first stop in Ramona, so I had to fill up on my own.
ETA: For what it’s worth, you seem to still dig in well by end of the race. Your avg HR up double peak is 172 vs. 185 max, which is respectable! Power stays up there too …
Yeah there is some pretty good riding for road, gravel and MTB around here. The weather is pretty solid year round as well. Of course I say that as we are experiencing an “atmospheric river”…
After newbie gains slowed down, most of my other gains came from things like extending TTE, raising power at long durations, efficient riding (bike position, group dynamics), nutrition/hydration, learning to suffer mentally, etc. I’m still green in many areas, but always plenty to learn and improve on!
