My concern is recovery on all fronts. If weight training is adding training stress (which I think most would agree it does) then it ought to be measured via tss. I suspect better ways of calculating tss are not far into the future.
How do you measure the need to recover from strength training vs an endurance sport, for which TSS was made up? As is discussed throughout the thread, it is an entirely different stress and recovery mechanism that, frankly, isnāt worth the time to try to track and will dilute the value of your other TSS inputs that are actually meaningful.
Well, itās a training stress that affects recovery, it does muscle damage, it adds to fatigue, so why not measure it in some way and take it into account? After all, endurance is a combination of things, of which strength is one component. And strength is directly impacted by weight training. Perhaps weāre thinking of tss too narrowly.
For illustration, consider weighted split squats and standing big gear jumps. Do three sets of ten split squats. Thatās 30 squats. Now, do 30 big gear jumps. I realize itās not apples to apples but I think we know where Iām heading. Both activities impact fatigue and and therefore recovery, so why wouldnāt want to consider its effect in some manner?
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Because you canāt (for now) know how to estimate the training stress from weight lifting in such a way that it is in any way meaningful when held up against the calculations for running and cycling (and to much less extent swimming). I would bet that a 27TSS strength training workout (that someone used above) incurs a hell of a lot more stress, DOMS, and need for recovery than a 27 TSS bike ride (think Carter). Any comparison of TSS from cycling applications to whatever value you make up for weight lifting is comparing apples to sea turtles.
Itās not that thereās NO value. Itās that there is little practical value in it right now, and there is little utility in spending time trying to estimate it as an athlete (or a coach, for that matter). Understand that weight training will take some strength out of the athlete; understand that there may be DOMS listen to your body/athlete, and plan or modify accordingly rather than trying to make up a number to tell you what to do.
Anyway, Iāve beaten this horse to death in this thread, so Iāll just leave it at this.
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i agree.
And it also all depends on, whatās the point?
If you are looking to progress with your strength training and are looking for a way of tracking training āloadā, then itās reasonable to track something, the same way that we use TSS in cycling. However, iād submit that youāre better off just tracking reps and sets like a weightlifter vs turning it into an even more abstract measurement.
If youāre looking to track it for purposes of managing fatigue, sure, i guess you could convert to TSS to create some sort of āaggregate loadā measurement, but i question the value, since how you weight apples and apples is going to be somewhat arbitrary here.
I would suggest to just use RPE and use that to sync it up with your training that way. TSS and CTL anyway are just a tool; they are not actually fitness, adaptation, or whatever, just a useful proxy for those things.
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Yep, dead is correct 
I just experienced this phenomenon and Iām confused. Shouldnāt my power numbers be LOWER due to the fact that my legs are already cooked from lifting?
Hello everbody,
I have a quick question. I am on the first week of general build high volume and did 12 weeks sweetspot high volume before that. I did strength training twice a week during sweetspot base 2 high volume and now i am in the build. So my question is that:
Should i continue to strenght training during build?
If yes, when? I was doing them on thursdays and sundays (before reco days and on the same day with hard workouts).
Itās probably something about muscle tension or getting the recruitment patterns firing.
It might be more of the āartā of lifting but itās a known thing. Football players at the combine will hit a few very heavy sets of back squats to peak their sprint before they go do the dashes, etc.
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Iād have to say that if weightlifting adds fatigue while on the bike , then it ought to be tracked, especially if you are new to lifting. After all, if you are using TP to track CTL, lifting is surely going to affect that number.
This is not quite true. Heavy squats have a somewhat predictable response in terms of HR.
This is my squats + weighted pull ups session from yesterday.
The question is not whether it adds to fatigue. The question is how do you compute TSS for weight lifting? Whatever you do, itās not apples to apples, so the CTL/TSB numbers become less meaningful. IMO, time is better spent doing other things than trying to figure out how to calculate meaningful TSS for weightlifting.
HR TSS is intended for steady state efforts. Itās not that HR doesnāt respond to resistance training, itās that using HR to calculate TSS in largely transient activities makes the number less and less accurate regardless of the activity.
Guys, seriouslyā¦ do what you want. I tracked weight lifting TSS (via both RPE and HR) for almost three years as a triathlete fifteen years ago from 2006-2008. It didnāt add anything meaningful to my training. If your experiences are different, Iām glad you find utility in itā¦ truly. IMO, it was a waste of time to try to quantify fatigue from weightlifting via the TSS metric.
For example?
Stretch, massage, review your nutrition, play with your kids, sleep, learn a foreign languageā¦ literally anything.
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I have found it helpful to estimate a TSS for my twice a week strength training.
I donāt care if it is the perfect method of measuring that load, it allows me to track my consistency on the TR calendar.
I try to be conservative in my estimates and I use the same number for each workout. Less TSS for mobility work, slightly more for strength work.
Now that I have been consistent for a couple seasons, it makes it way easier to compare seasons and see where I missed workouts whether on bike or in the gym.
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As long as the āmeasurementā is consistent, itās somewhat viable. It just dilutes then usefulness of the rest of the calculations. That said, itās easy enough with WKO to filter activity types.
Iād like to add an observation. About half a year ago, I started sixpack training, since a lot of leg movements are supported by abs. I do it 3 days on, 1 day off. I found that fater doing my sixpacks workout (20 minutes approx), for some reason, I cannot push threshold / VO2 that strongly. Whereas, when I do abs letās say 2-3 hours after threshold / VO2, itās fine.
I am also wondering how much carbs are used by weight lifting. I do MV plans, so mo / wed / fri are basically free days, so I do upper body strength (back, shoulders, biceps, triceps, chest), for about 30-40 mins. It may not translate to cycling TSS, but I guess it does influence your carb reserves and perhaps recovery from intense training?
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Trying to figure out TSS for strength training. Joe Friel from Training Peaks has a discuss about it.
He assigns a RPE of 50 for an Average strength session. RPE 100 for lift to failure. RPE 25 for a Deload session. My guess.
Then he divides RPE by the tonnage lifted (weight x reps x sets/2000)
(It helps to workout with a spreadsheet close by)
50 (RPE) / 19.75 tonnes ( a recent session of mine) = 2.53 TSS
I am missing something because that session was a whole lot more than 2.53 TSS
Can a physiologist weigh in on this please?
RPE could be % of max to get a more accurate figure
%Max x Volume (weight x reps x sets) = this has to be more meaningful then RPE
Somehow convert this to a figure that means something
On page 225 of the Cyclistās Training Bible by Joe Friel there is a discussion of how to figure TSS for weight training. He admits the equipment to measure this accurately does not exist so this is just an estimate.
First you need to measure VOLUME of a workout. I use a google spreadsheet to do this as I workout.
Volume = weight(lbs) x reps x sets
Tonnage = Volume / 2000
Tonnage x 10 = TSS
Core work and body weight work is going to be an estimate of work but you can do it.
I recently did a strength session where my volume was 20 tones x 10 = 200 TSS. That is probably a stretch compared to a ride worth 200 TSS but it is a start.
Looking forward to others feedback.