I was watching one of the podcasts the other night and it was mentioned that your aerobic system is the one doing the bulk of the work in clearing lactate during the “under” portions. I am wondering if the guys that struggle (more than usual) with over/unders could maybe use a greater focus on aerobic conditioning, similarly to how you might do a block of v02max work if you’re really lacking there? Particularly if you’ve been focusing on, and having success with, shorter intervals this could potentially be an area that needs to be brought up to speed.
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This is one area which most definitely helps with lactate clearing. When I started with TR I had almost no aerobic base – I was a flyin’ high VO2max guy! – and O/Us suuuuccckkked! 
Things have gotten marginally better since that time.
Here are my 2 cents.
I too dreaded the infamous O/Us. However, I used to do O/Us at a high cadence ( 95-105) and change gears to maintain the cadence and the power. I’ve come to learn that this was my downfall.
I realized that a lower cadence (under at 85 rpm and over at 90 rpm) has been my saving grace. Not knowing exactly why but I like to think that by doing the higher cadence it tired fast twitch fibres to quickly for me. (Limiter perhaps??)
A lower cadence helps me stay in my “zones/energy systems”, allows me to build muscular and let’s me finish the workout.
DO THEM. WORK ON WEAKNESSES. IGNORE STRENGTHS.
Do people actually get lactate burn from over-unders? As in, ouch, I have to stop?
I get a slight burn but it’s not a full on workout stopping burn. Physiologically if you are over your lactate threshold then you have to be experiencing some burn, it may take a while for it to become apparent. It’s not a binary thing. Listen to the VO2max discussion on AACC-252, the burn will build at different rates depending on how far above LT you are.
Yes, especially, as has been said, if your lactate clearing abilities are not trained (e.g. weak aerobic foundation). It’s a thing. Believe me now or listen to my screams of terror later! 
Thanks, I can never work out if it’s more a figure of speech or a real thing, lol. For me during over-unders, it more a feeling of ‘increased load’, but it’s not painful in any way. I do get the ‘ouch’ screaming thing, but I basically only during sprints.
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Another way to quantify the recovery during the under portions is your heart rate. I know its variable day to day, and not reliable, but in my experience you should see some HR recovery during the unders and a fairly consistent creep up during the overs.
It is a bit hard to see in the screenshot below (from some o/u I did yesterday morning) but I work down to around 157-158 during that under, then up to 163 in the over, down to 159 in the second under, up to 165 in the over, and then back down to 161 in the third under shown.
This is a fairly typical HR ladder for me during these interval types. If you aren’t experiencing any recovery during the unders you should evaluate your FTP or your aerobic conditioning
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@megsambit and I were just discussing this: she gets a couple of points of HR recovery during the unders, but I don’t. It’s more like HR stops going up during them.
Yeah, I get recovery too. Plus my HR lag means that its only really high again close to the peak of each over, most of the increase I’m still ‘recovered’ as far as HR goes. It then increases to rise a bit after the peak, but because power drops, it doesn’t feel as bad.
Maybe I just have numb legs or something, but I don’t notice any muscular discomfort in OUs. Just increasing respiratory distress and systemic feelings of illness and impending doom that I associate with above-threshold work. I only get any noticeable burning with repeated anaerobic efforts, all-out VO2 efforts, or a ramp test (although usually it’s not the limiter on the ramp test).
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I wonder if the guys could do a thorough discussion on over-unders in a future podcast along the same lines as that for VO2max in AACC-252?
@jpowers - I think many of the near threshold and above workouts affect us all in subtly different ways depending on what our weaknesses are. The trick seems to be figuring out how to address those weaknesses.
Lactate lottery winner.
What’s your aerobic fitness history (e.g. Endurance zone volume) over the last ~5 years?
That’s funny. I’m the exact opposite. I don’t feel overly stressed breathing wise during over-unders. It’s all my legs that feel in the edge of failure the whole time.
I don’t remember this being the case last year…BOTH legs and lungs were on the verge of failure the whole time. I think my extended base phase (TB 1,2,3, then SSB) has make things much easier respiration wise.
Legs still betray me though LOL. That said…I am hoping that all of this sweet spot and threshold work will quickly improve what I think is my main limiter right now…muscular endurance. Here’s hoping anyway…
…going to do Pasisade in an hour. I’ll report back and let you guys know if I’m still alive 
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I “did” McAdie +1 today. I lost my motivation halfway through set 3 of 4 lol
While this isn’t the case right now, in the past, the automatic FTP model in Golden Cheetah has estimated that my CP is ~5-10% lower than TR tested FTP, but estimates a W’ of 30-35 kJ.
What metric is useful here? I have total time, but data besides that is a little spotty.
2015 and earlier: zero
2016: 165 hours, mostly aerobic; ~3 W/kg at end of year
2017: 220 hours, mostly aerobic; ~3.4 W/kg
2018: 310 hours, mixed; ~3.5 W/kg
2019: 320 hours, mixed; not much more time than 2018, but faster; ~3.6 W/kg
Can’t find a good source of time-in-zone summaries, but I don’t have outdoor power data going back more than a year and some, anyway. The following 2019 summary from intervals.icu is probably roughly representative of 2018; prior to that was aerobic plus trying to survive climbs and group rides.
That could be why you’re now “good” at O/Us, lots of previous aerobic/endurance zone time. I’ll search for the source but I recall Z2 and Threshold work develop your lactate clearance capabilities.
Ok, I am so, so happy now. Just had by far my best performance on any overunder workout. Finished palisade with no backpedals, no breaks, no power drops. Only felt like I was really at the limit and on the verge of failure on the 5th interval (whereas normally I’m there about the midpoint of the workout).
I’m wondering if my volume bump starting a couple weeks ago is paying dividends. Noticeably more manageable.
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This.
This.
When reducing intensity you might just try reducing intensity for the under parts. Q&A episode #80 (That Triathlon Show of @Mikael_Eriksson, highly recommended) has a note on this.
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