Doesn’t he mainly/only work with long distance triathletes? They only have a few races a year, so I guess a periodised build up is easier to acccomplish. And then, running is involved, which requires a careful build up and recovery in itself. Not sure it is comparable to modern road pros who race through almost the entire year.
While I believe we shouldn’t copy others’ trainings - especially not from pros - I think there is some value in looking at components/methods.
One component are these blocks. And I mean this short “base blocks”. Why traditional base vs SST? Why not focus on SST and throw in 2-4d blocks with base rides? "Aerobic overload blocks ". It is often said that it actually does not require so much stimulus from long rides. If one can squeeze them in every once in a while big benefits can already be gained.
The pounding of running could be of concern but the main goal is because of the targeted metabolic development, divided in to specific microcycles. New athletes can probably improve both aerobic capacity at the same time as aerobic economy but noob gains eventually slow down and one needs to focus on one or the other.
So there’s a lot of “it depends” to answer the original question.
OP Here.
I started TBMV yesterday. Bailed mid workout and started SSBMV today. I forgot how much I hated recovery rides and recovery week son the trainer - I find if I am not pushing that I check out mentally. Carry on:-)
I find it a personal accomplishment that I was mentally able to finish Traditional Base MV 1, 2, and 3 on the trainer. IT. WAS. HORRIBLE. I’d rather watch paint dry followed by grass growing than suffer through traditional base again. Certainly they could make Traditional Base more engaging @Nate_Pearson. I mean it feels as if TR wasn’t even trying when they structured those workouts.
LOL I did a 4-week block of Traditional Base (TB) last year and nearly lost my mind! This year I’ve been doing TB1 and TB2 outside, and it has been fun! Even increased volume and added time/TSS.
Lower intensity of TB1 and TB2 means more time in the saddle, unfortunately. Make it more engaging? Honestly don’t see how, unless you do what I did this year and take it outside. I’ll bet that is part of the reason TR recommends SSB over TB Can you imagine starting a 30-day trial of any indoor training program, and then losing your sanity via low-intensity spinning for mind numbing hours? Talk about developing a mental edge, hats off to anyone that does TB MV or HV on a trainer!
What about a blend of sweet spot and traditional base? I’m looking to do longer rides 3+ hours on my two days off, but because of work, I don’t have the same free time during the week. Wednesday and Sunday are the long endurance rides, Friday is short endurance, sweet spot on Tuesday and Saturday, and tempo on Thursday. Would mixing them be too much intensity or not create the desired training effect? This would only be for my first base block, but I need to focus on longer sustained power, especially in sweet spot.
These kinds of sentiments are popping up more frequently around the forum (base season!). Thing is, Trad Base is what it is – long, slow, steady rides. Period.
It’s like saying you want more sharks in the water cuz just laying on the beach is too boring. You do Trad Base specifically because it doesn’t stress the physiology in the way HIIT sessions do.
Unfortunately, TB doesn’t fit well with indoor training. People get bored and want to be entertained (hello, zwift). Fortunately, TR isn’t in the entertainment biz. It’s also a bit telling that, in general, people comment that VO2max intervals are too hard and Trad Base is too easy.
Paraphrasing something I read recently — pros are disciplined and don’t need to show off during training, that’s what races are for. But since almost none of us are pros, do whatever keeps you happy on the bike.
Yeah, I’m planning on doing TB1 → TB2 → SSB 1/2 → Build → Specialty. Thinking about Sustained Power Build because I think that’s a weak point right now, but Specialty will be Road.
Not sure if you are addressing me but since you did quote my post I’ll reply as follows:
I am not looking to be entertained but am definitely looking to enjoy and engage with my training. Cycling is a passion and unless there are massive gains to be made I am not willing to sacrifice the enjoyment of my favourite activity to follow the tb plan.
Not sure what you are reaching for with your analogy about pros and showing off during training - with my FTP showing off is not an option even if I wanted to.
Im just starting an unscheduled period of TB which comes at the end of SSB 1 and 2. Falls out of usual base/build (+- specialty) routine but my reasons for doing TB now are: Ive realised I could do with a bit of a break; building more base instead of build is something that would be of benefit to me currently; weight loss is better with TB than SSB (im 94kg).
I’m doing TB1 (LV) now because I’ve got a minor knee injury where I don’t want to put too much force through the knee. If I do it with TR and a podcast the way I did with SSB then I find it lasts forever, but if I catch up on Youtube then it doesn’t feel bad and I’m surprisingly fresh (physically and mentally) by the end.
Gonna go back to SSB when I can, because TB during cross season seems like de-training, but will try TB MV after CX season is over.
Personal experience, although obviously it may be different for others. I found when I did a stint of traditional base building in the summer, I could do the rides fasted and usually didnt need to eat after either, although I always just had a small amount of protein. Perhaps if people eat the same on both plans they might be similar, I dont know, but I found on and off bike calorie control easier on TB.
Perhaps I should have said I found weight loss easier with TB than SSB.
My experience as well, it’s easier to do the workouts in a lower energy state even though steady state work burns usually just about as much overall calories. You don’t have to focus as much on replacing carb/glycogen stores, just eat a nice balanced meal since you are trying to pull a lot of your energy from fat and not carbs like SS. Although SS work will also improve fat utilization even if you aren’t specifically using it as the preferred fuel during the workouts. Early base period is my preferred time to lose weight… once intensity really kicks in, hunger/underfueling workouts becomes an issue when the main goal should be to nail the workout.
Could also be that TB has few workouts sub 1000kcal/session whereas SSB has a lot of them under 800kcal/session and even sub 700kcal. That combined with fueling/feeling hungry afterwards probably makes it tougher to loose weight or at least keep in a deficit.
I don’t have kids, my workdays are usually 6:15-3:15, and I can train between 4-6PM in the afternoon (my wife usually gets home around 5:30). With that time/life context, I’d rather do 80TSS in 2 hours and burn off a little over 1500kj than do the same kj in 90 minutes, at 90TSS. Less stress, and a slower ramp rate over the winter.
During the last five weeks I’ve let CTL drop from 115 to 95 (peak was over 120 at the end of July). By the end of this month, it should be around 90. Two sub-threshold days a week and a lot of easy endurance should ramp things up slowly over the winter – hopefully just 2 TSS/week, just enough to be around 110 or so when the season starts here, in February.
In the past I’ve let CTL drop more and taken more of a tempo/SST approach. I give a go at sweating and stressing less on week nights this year. We’ll see how it works out.
". It is often said that it actually does not require so much stimulus from long rides. If one can squeeze them in every once in a while big benefits can already be gained.
I’d rather watch paint dry followed by grass growing than suffer through traditional base again. Certainly they could make Traditional Base more engaging 
Can you imagine starting a 30-day trial of any indoor training program, and then losing your sanity via low-intensity spinning for mind numbing hours? Talk about developing a mental edge, hats off to anyone that does TB MV or HV on a trainer!