Scoop of ON nutrition, then maltodextrin and fructose in a 2:1 ratio. You can adjust that so it’s 4:1 carbs:protein with the amount of calories you want.
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yeah, you’re right. only 3500 calories in 4 hours via the TR calculation. Of course if you hit other apps you’ll see something closer to 4000. They may be adding in normal calorie loss of a waking person to the direct calorie loss of the effort.
As for ‘you just store it as fat anyway’. I mean…sure. But when I stop riding I’m not going to eat 3 packages of cliff bloks. I still don’t see the need to pour sugar into my system to offset fat loss during my ride? I mean…what is the actual point? I think the forest is being missed here. If what we are striving for is keeping the sugar system primed and running…then just replace the sugar on the bike (since it is easier to digest) and backfill the protein and fat once the ride is over.
I also know that if I’m taking it at endurance pace I can eat something with more fat and protein, and on a longer ride I will typically do that. But again. Is there a study that shows 100% calorie replacement is ‘better’ than simply replacing the fuel that is lost. Like I said 1 pound of fat isn’t a big deal in the grand scheme.
It is a nuanced and difficult topic to cover. You can see this in the weight loss industry, as there is no one size fits all, and the human body is amazingly resilient.
My experience in my own life is I do not work well with high sugar diets. I have a sweet tooth and love chocolate. I used to have a daily bar like a snickers or similar. I always battled to move on fat and even when at my fittest I had belly fat. I switched to nuts (unsalted mix with no peanuts) and I eat more in terms of calories per day snacking on nuts, but have changed body composition a huge amount, and dropped overall weight while being more muscular from doing more off bike weights.
I do know my father and grandfather had type 2 diabetes, and am considered very high risk to develop type 2, so have targeted my diet, including on the bike to limit high sugar spikes. I do 4 hour road rides with minimal food regularly, and would eat normally for that day without impact. That is not to say I do not use jells and bars, but no where near the amounts you guys are talking about. I have done regular back to back 4 hour rides training for a 200 miler event with no real issues following this method.
Basically, it is complicated
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Yeah it’s confusing. 1 kilocalorie (Cal) is equal to 4.184 kJ. If your country doesn’t use the silly calorie unit, you can work with kJ and efficiency.
When your TrainerRoad app says your kJ was 360kJ, that means your power meter actually measured a power output over the course of a time period. You are right, you would have averaged 100W for 1 hr to get to 360kJ. This is just the energy you put into your trainer and does not include your efficiency or the amount of food to eat.
So you need to consume about 1400kJ of food to replace the deficit which assumes you are about 25.7% efficient. Because 360kJ/1400kJ = 25.7%. Probably closer to 1500kJ because I’ve heard most people are between 20% to 25% efficient.
@Nate_Pearson or @Jonathan if I want to make the recovery drink with Ritual Chocolate as suggested. How much Ritual Chocolate powder would I need in that recipe? I’m sure my taste preferences factor in, so maybe another way to ask it is, how many recovery drinks would you expect to get out of an 8oz bag of Ritual drinking chocolate?
I’m not sure what the correct answer is, but here’s what I’d keep in mind.
- I wouldn’t want fat to be too high. It slows absorption which is what you don’t want in a recovery shake.
- I’d factor in the sugar that’s in that scoop into the shake macros.
So, a little bit to taste? I wouldn’t think that would have too much fat or too much sugar. Jon might say 1:1 ratio 
.
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Contrary to this interference hypothesis, a report published in 2013 suggested that the hypertrophic response was not altered by the addition of AT to a RT mesocycle
Whew, my gainz are safe!
@ambermalika, and you do this with just water (i.e. no dairy to improve the texture)? 500ml?
I will try it but I am a little afraid of it not tasting good/being too watery, we’ll see, thanks for the tip.
Yeah I just add water. I’ve used both Bob’s Red Mill brand whey (plain) and Tera’s whey (also plain flavor), and both mix easily. You can just add water to taste and find the right level of dilution for your palate. Hope this helps!
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thank you @ambermalika, I didn’t expect a personal direct reply but happy to have received it.
Will be giving it a go. Have a great weekend.
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I would like to shift gears in the thread to ask about strength training from the podcast.
My question specifically is what low force, high velocity exercises can I do for my “strength” routine each week @chad?
My personal situation for this Fall and winter was going to be:
- Ride 3 days per week (low volume)
- Strength 2 days per week
However, I think I want to try riding 4 days per week (just add in a 60 min endurance ride, pettit), and still do some conditioning 2 days.
My schedule was going to be (low volume plan):
Monday - TR ride
Tuesday - TR ride
Wednesday - Workout
Thursday - Pettit
Friday - TR ride
Saturday - workout
Sunday - Nothing
Some conditions:
- I want one day on weekend of nothing (I have young family)
- I don’t want to do two workouts in the same day
- I don’t have enough time to do a workout immediately after a TR ride (like how @Nate_Pearson does)
- Workout to be done at home with limited equipment
- I was also thinking to just focus on core work for the mid-week workout so as not to roast my legs (and use the free Nike NTC app for this)
- Then use the Saturday workout for more “neuromuscular” work I think it is referred to as
So, in this thread can we come up with a workout the forum readers can use?
- Warm-up (light range of movement 2-3 min)
- Box jumps
- Single leg Romanian dead-lift (no weight)
- Jump squats
- Bulgarian split squat (body weight only?)
- Spiderman push-ups
- Cool-down & Stretching
- Sets & Reps?
Please comment, add, remove, delete exercises, confirm sets and reps …
Thank you for your help and input and hopefully we can get stronger bodies, easily at home with little or no additional equipment (everything for the bike is a lot already 
)
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I feel the topic discussed on Asthma was very superficial. The role of steroid preventers was not really emphasized enough. My personal experience as a long term asthmatic suggests that asthma sufferers who want to do better in their sports should see a respiratory physician and discuss their issues. Pre sports Ventolin is fine, but I think better overall control is superior.
I have wrote a bit on my struggles in this thread:
(Asthma and VO2 Max Sessions - #27 by gcarver)
Hope I have been helpful
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Totally agree. I was really looking forward to this and it was almost an afterthought. You guys were all just too fatigued to give this the proper attention it deserves.
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I was diagnosed with asthma when since I was 6 or 7 (1992? maybe). Was taken to the ER and diagnosed after I was found wheezing from playing outside when it was cold. Had lots of issues when I was a kid where I’d be out playing and would struggle with that breathing through a straw feeling. Sometimes it was quite severe. Things got better once I started taking a pill (Singulair/Montelukast). I would only use the inhaler before exercise in mostly cold weather. Now as an adult, and after having been into years of cycling and triathlon, I rarely use any medication for my asthma (primarily only need it when it is very cold and I train outdoors). I thought maybe I just grew out of it or somehow resolved the auto-immune issues. Maybe instead it has gotten better due to the training. I haven’t done any of my own research or given much thought to my diagnoses, especially since I rarely have issues with it anymore, so thought I would just share my experience.
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Reporting back: Ritual chocolate breaks the budget on a cost effective recovery drink 
so I stuck with the double rich chocolate whey from ON. Tried my first homemade recovery drink last night and it was fantastic.
Recipe:
1/2 scoop whey (15 grams) which was 12 grams of protein
32 grams of maltodextrin
16 grams of fructose
2 grams of salt
500 ml of water.
This is going to come out to about $1 per recovery drink. 
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Some who are lactose intolerant (like me) has had issues with whey, but somehow chocolate flavored ones are usually ok. I have had bad luck with vanilla flavoured proteins…
Your experience is very similar to mine! It’s possible it’s a complicated combination of increased fitness/training, environmental triggers (allergens, cold, etc), and changes over time (i.e. growing out of it). I know that life experience has also helped me to really hone in on the triggers so that I can be smart about managing and preempting my asthma. Glad to know there are other athletes out there with similar experiences!
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Hey Amber,
Just wanted to say i found the eating advice on this podcast very helpful. Good stuff.
That said, what would you do on the day of say, something like Dirty Kanzaa or any of the National Ultra Endurance series MTB races?
The challenge is, these things often go off with start times at like 5:30 in the morning so you’re really sacrificing sleep if you choose to get up early and eat.
So do you modify the nutrition strategy and treat it as a circumstance where you don’t have time to eat a big breakfast beforehand even though ideally you would? Or do you sacrifice sleep the night before, and just really try to make sure you get good sleep 2, 3, and 4 nights before?
@Jonathan I think this is the podcast where you mentioned / recommended someone that knows cycling who has a strength training program. I need to change mine up and had hoped the reference was in the thread. Can you provide that info? thank you
FasCat has a good one - I did it for the first time this year. His approach is to do a 10 week program prior to base.
Another is Menachem Brodie/ human vortex training. His is a year round philosophy.