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Ten Dam’s bars are not narrow…those are gravel drop bars that flare out to be very wide in the drops for control in technical sections. His levers look like they are inward because of the bar design more than the angle in which he sets them.
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It was flat, definitely didn’t have anything that would require me to push beyond tempo watts.
Yeah but the majority of the time his hands and arms are in the narrow position. That’s what matters most is keeping the arms narrow and level. The little bit extra length of the bars have a very marginal impact.
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You can make significant gains with very little investment.
About 80% of aero drag is due to your body and this percentage gets higher the taller you are. Tall people get hung up on the higher total CdA. However, the good news is that improvements relative to yourself will have a bigger payoff. So fix your aero already. How?
- Position is huge for lowering your frontal area. Getting the arms level and narrow. Get the back as flat as you can. You do have to be careful not to sacrifice power. Shorter cranks and a forward hip tilt help. Make sure your saddle isn’t too high because it makes putting out power in a low position very challenging.
- You need a tight and slippery kit. Like super form fitting. Wrinkles and looseness are really draggy. People underestimate this all the time.
- Helmet is the next thing to focus on. Aero helmets vs not makes big difference. An aero helmet has more benefit than aero wheels.
- Wheels matter more than frame. If you are using rim brakes, you can pickup used aero wheels pretty cheap. Just ask around on local Facebook Cycling classifieds.
As others have said, rolling resistance matters a lot too. It increases with speed. Tires and bearings matter a lot. You want really, really supple tires. GP5000 are great. If you want something more gravel oriented, Rene Herse knobby tires are a great but pricey choice.
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I think you missed my point…the bars ten Dam were using are not narrow. Look how wide his arms are vs. his shoulder.
Yes, there is a trend in road cycling towards narrower bars and yes, some pros are angling their levers inward to minimize drag…but that pic was not a good example of that trend. If anything, it is the opposite.
This is what really sucks about a group ride.
10 years ago I only used box section wheels on a training ride or group ride. Now everyone has all the aero gains and I struggle to keep up since they are now saving 30w. These changes bump the groups pulls into my threshold zone and makes it really hard to keep up.
On our group rides normal to see
Aero helmet, skin suit, deep wheels and aero bike.
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On a hill, no doubt the light weight guy has an advantage. But on the flat, contrary to what’s said in here, the big (read tall and more muscles) guy has actually an advantage. If you have the same w/kg FTP compared to a light weight rider you should push out significantly higher absolute watts and be faster. Of course there is a slight aero penalty and you need more watts than a small guy (yet less w/kg) for the same speed. Just look at Filippo Ganna - not a small dude, unbeatable on a flat TT.
Having said that, totally agree: Big guys give more draft than they get - no matter how good their aero position is.
To OP: You don’t have to post it here. But it might help you to film yourself on the trainer and analyze your position. Like others said: Lower front doesn’t mean more aero. Whilst aerodynamics are complicated with eyeballing you can figure out if your back is flattish, arms are parallel to the ground etc. I agree with others here. Besides body position, cloths, tires and a helmet should be the biggest bang for your bucks on your mission.
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@anthonylane - given the advice on here I’d be super interested to know how your journey towards extra speed turns out.
If you happen to apply any / some / all of the suggested approaches proposed on this thread it would be really great to hear how you get on!
I’m a ‘larger framed’ rider myself so am keen to get any real world feedback on what works best and what you encounter.
Anything that can be learnt as a transferable lesson is super valuable 
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I never questioned that there isn’t a relationship between weight/height and CDA. But only talking about watts when comparing yourself to someone else who weighs only 70% of your body weight is not really leading to any comparable result. In your example: Your friend has a FTP of 350w (5.15w/kg). If your FTP is not around 500w (5.15w/kg) you might not be able to compete with him because he is well… just stronger.
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@thebandit and @dsirrom and @huges84 thank you for your detailed and thoughtful response, gives me a lot to consider. I’m definitely going to look at GP5000’s as my next tire-set as well as look at ways to slowly but surely add more aero.
@toby Here’s a photo of me this morning getting aero. This is about as low as I can get and be sustainable for long periods of time.
Bike is a 60cm, w/120mm stem and 40mm spacers.
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I don’t think your friend is that much of an outlier. Being a TTer and therefore having a good understanding of how to maximise speed at any given wattage is likely as big a part of the solution as his body shape. I’m quite a bit bigger than him at 6’1" and currently around 80kg and I routinely average around 20mph on ~200W on solo rides with a moderate amount of climbing. And Strava power normally shows up as quite a bit lower than Garmin power. E.g. I did 100 miles solo with 3000 foot of climbing at exactly 20mph the other week, according to Strava I averaged 187W, Garmin had me at 205W, I assume Strava includes stops and/or coasting in their number.
I do quite a few TTs, including road bike TTs, so my position is fairly aero and I can put out power while staying aero. I also have a pretty good feel for where it’s worth putting out a few extra watts to get some more speed vs where to ease up and recover. All my kit fits snugly. I have an aero road helmet. I run 45mm deep wheels with decent tires even on my training bike. I shave my legs. This stuff all adds up to some pretty decent speed differences when taken together. And amongst the guys I ride with I’d say I’m average - there are some who spend far more time than me optimising the aeroness of their setup, either because they’re competing in road bike TTs and/or because they’re aiming to win races from solo or small breaks.
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I went through this a couple of years ago so I could better hang on my club’s group ride. First I’m 54 and riding with a bunch of youngsters. The fast ones have ALL the aero gear - when you add it up, it is an enormous amount of watts at race speeds. I came up with these ballpark estimates:
deep aero wheels - 25 watts
fast tires 5-20 watts depending on what you start with
aero road helmet - 10 watts
race fit painted on jersey - 10-15 watts
aero road bars - 5 watts
aero bike frame 10-15 watts
So think about when the group is motoring along at 27-28mph and it’s your turn to take a pull. If you don’t have those 75+ free watts, you will be killing yourself compared to your club mates. After 10 pulls at a 75 watt disadvantage, you are pushed over the edge too many times and out the back or you are hanging on with nothing left in the tank.
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The good news is that this can be fixed relatively easily.
The bad news is you need a new bike (or maybe that is good news!)
Honestly, that bike is WAY too small for you…you’ll never be able to minimize your drag on it.
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To me you look scrunched up on that bike - elbows very close to knees. To me a lot more aero, I’d be thinking about rotating hips, much flatter back and much more stretched out in front.
I realize that that might even be a new bike or at least a major reconstruction of your fit philosophy.
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@anthonylane - I’d suggest above ALL else that if you are going to spend any money, outside of clothing or a helmet, that BEFOREHAND you go and get yourself a bike fit from a decent and recommended fitter.
This will identify a wide range of things, including what size bike you need, what geometry suits your current flexibility and mobility and what your position may be for the optimal sustained power / aero / comfort conundrum.
It’s money very well spent in my experience.
Beyond this you will then have a detailed and deeper understanding of whether your current setup can be suitably modified or whether as is being suggested (and simply from the photo you’ve posted I think I’d probably tend to agree) your current bike is not quite right for a man of your stature.
Good luck
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Well, some good news: looks like you can stop worrying that your power meter is wildly off.
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It’s really hard to find frames that are my size. The current one (Breezer Inversion XXL) has a 60.5cm ETT, but the reach is relatively short at 394mm with a generous stack of 636mm. It’s an endurance-gravel bike.
So yeah, it’s compact, but it’s comfortable and I can make good watts on it. But I definitely feel like I cannot get low (which is evident) and have always thought this might be the culprit. It’s amazing how few of bike brands carry appropriately sized frames for us long-legged tall folk which forces a lot of us into frames that are realistically too small.
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Here’s some data from back in the day…you can still find this presentation on youtube somewhere, I bet…
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I agree. You are clearly in too small of a bike. You can’t get in an aero body position, which is the biggest aero gain. So spending money on aero equipment won’t do much for you right now.
A good fitter will be able to help you evaluate potential bikes / frames to get your fit better.
If money or frame availability are issues, there are dedicated tall rider classifieds on Facebook. For example “big bikes and beyond”.
Fix your fit and you will have an immediate benefit to your power and aero, a double wammy for speed.
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