Generally speaking, base period is designed for building your general aerobic conditioning in order to handle the more intense work ahead.
Build is where we’re typically supposed to see greater adaptations as we push further into specific areas of fitness, whether it’s short power, sustained power or a balanced general build program. Different build plans will offer a bit more benefit to different areas of fitness, not necessarily FTP.
Specialty isn’t really designed to build FTP, it’s designed to focus the fitness that’s been built, the sharpen the blade for a specific purpose.
Sweet spot base can take you quite far, in fact, a sweet spot base > sustained power build > sweet spot base > general build ( or sustained again, but the added variety at that point may serve you well ) would be one way to look at your long term training plan if you don’t have specific events to specialize for, and just want to focus on raw FTP improvements.
Being an experienced rider, and being able to do sweet spot base high volume with that sort of FTP, and see that much of an improvement is impressive, and shows you still have room to grow.
Are you saying to build raw ftp 12 weeks SSB then 8 weeks sustained then 12 weeks SSB ? Just a question.
I was think short build then sustained build then short build . Break thur your ceiling ( short ) , sustain ( sustained build ) your gains then break thur your ceiling again ( short ). Then maybe repeat SSB 1&2. Then repeat the entire cycle all over again. Just a thought
Short build to sustained build back up to short build is like 6 months of just build training.
That’s a LONG time to be JUST doing build. I can see for the right athlete MAYBE doing 2 builds back to back, but 3…
It’s a REALLY long time.
I wouldn’t expect to continue to see benefits for that long of just building either, as you’ll essentially be outgrowing your base conditioning, in my opinion, as well as possibly getting just burnt out.
My thoughts on base > build > base > build are to get that foundation, build upon it, raising the ceiling, and then go and rebuild your foundation around the newer ceiling, making your baseline overall higher, then hop back into build with the improved baseline, and sort of repeat.
A build phase is only as good as your base conditioning, so I hate to ever get too far away from it.
I’m just finishing up close to 7 months of base right now personally, ( I spent a little bit of time doing some traditional base outside, then went sweet spot base mid volume, and now sweet spot base high volume )
Reason I am doing this, is because so many people under value base training, and spend too much time away from it. On this current round I’m up 44 watts or 16% so far just in base training, and really expect to see some great benefits from build since my base will be so well developed.
Build is tough (mentally and physcially). Recently I’ve completed sustained build, then onto Base 2 which has started to “refresh me” and in 3 weeks back to 8 weeks of Build.
Haven’t listened to the podcast, but isn’t ‘lots of threshold’ pyramidal? That’s what I’ve been doing in the 10 months since I last did a TR plan, and it’s been good for a 30w FTP increase and a good bump across the whole PDC over 1 minute.
Edit: My time in TR plans was also pyramidal, and was good for a 28w bump in 5 months. It was time to move onto something more specific for me after those plans, but my distribution didn’t change massively.
I started with SSB1, SSB2, Gen Build. Then made up my own plans, one of which was a modified SSB2. Last year I did a couple of threshold progressions using custom workouts and a VO2/anaerobic block from hell.
I really like the idea of block periodisation, so this season it’s been a bit more of a cogent structure, but nothing groundbreaking.
8/9 weeks of Z2 with more hours than usual for me - 13-15 hours p/w. Halfway in I started adding a little sweetspot to prepare for what was to come
Then blocks tending to be 3 work/1 recovery of…
Sweetspot (extensive aerobic)
VO2 max
Threshold (intensive aerobic)
I may loosely cycle intensive to extensive work (a bit like ‘TR build and base’ I guess). I’ll throw in another VO2 max block when I feel like it’d be beneficial.
One of the reasons I’ve not been doing many TR workouts is that the TiZ and interval duration of sweetspot and threshold isn’t challenging enough for where I’ve got to.
Nailed it. Tim talks a lot of sense, and of course in his webinars is quite open about how he structures blocks for his athletes, which is useful. The Empiricial Cycling podcast has some good actionable takeaways amongst the deep physiological nerdery. So mostly those sources, but always looking to learn more. I’m only 14 months into doing any kind of ‘proper’ training and so far whatever I’ve done has worked - could be luck, could be noob gainz… Of course personal preference comes into it choosing how to train too - I like listening to Seiler, but think I would get bored doing ~10% TiZ at intensity for too much of the year.
I also like just seeing what other people here have done/are doing and plagiarising some of that too!
Before going into the VO2 max block, rode for 60 mins at 86% of my all time 5-minute power. Also I hadn’t done any VO2 max specific work for 5 or 6 months, so knew it was overdue a tune up.
I massively improved over the 3 weeks, in fact I rode my old 5 min power +2w for 6 mins in the first interval of a 6x4 on week 3.
I went to test an all out 5 mins near the end of my recovery week to try and quantify improvements, but fell apart after 2-3 mins. This was the first sign that I should’ve recovered longer. Alas 2 weeks of threshold later, I’m having an early recovery week (just had 3 full days off for the first time in ages). To be honest I feel great for it, and am back into an easy Z2 ride today on day 4. So be warned, the hard VO2 max block crushed me! Check my calendar if you want to see more detail.
Edit: that anecdote is proof I’m no expert. Just trying to learn as I go!
This reminds me of that Dylan Johnson thread that’s now up to like 1000 posts.
Can you summarize specifically how “pyramidal” differs from the SSB I and II followed by general build or sustained power build mid-volume or high-volume plans available in TrainerRoad, and whether those two plans are deficient?
I don’t understand what is actionable about your remark here
My results are my results. I responded better to more zone2 and less intervals. Your results might be different.
p.s. FWIW I’ve done TR SSB HV and MV, and Traditional Base 1 and 2. If the FasCat plan had not delivered results, my next step with TR base development was going to be using the Full Distance Triathlon HV plan as my template and attempting to rebalance for cycling only (without the swims and runs). The Full Distance plan looks really interesting for someone like myself that enjoys long adventure rides and how I felt about Traditional Base 1 and 2.
I wasn’t trying to be snarky, I just genuinely don’t understand what to do next when people start bringing up the whole “polarized and pyramidal” discussions in so many threads.
TrainerRoad plans have well thought out progressions to develop energy systems, just like other plans I’ve used directly or for inspriration (CTS/Strava, FasCat, and Velocious).
If TR works for you great, but if you start having to make a lot of modifications then I suggest experimenting with other plans that put more emphasis on zone2 aerobic endurance riding. Its one reason I tried TR’s Traditional Base, however I feel it needs some modifications to adapt to how I respond to zone2 training (hence my point about Full Distance Triathlon base plan).
Everyone is different. Hearing the story on podcasts, it seems Nate got fast spending about a year doing sweet spot base. I found something that worked for me and then I doubled down on the approach by hiring a coach.
