Calculating LT1 and LT2 approximately without a blood test?

I enjoy going down the rabbit hole of various training methods, but this nails it for 99.9% of amateurs even up to the low level pros - I think. Set it up so you enjoy it, and if you want to race well you’ll have to go hard sometimes, but most should be enjoyable. And If looking to improve, try to find a way to get more time doing the enjoyable stuff.

Obviously a pretty big oversimplification, but it’s really not complex for most amateurs.

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I believe this need for complexity is a direct consequence of indoor riding or bad locations for outside riding. When the riding is boring you need to spice it up with structure and creative workouts.

Is this a time when you can ride outside more? If so, I would combine “LT1 focused” and “SST”…fun to do w/ outside rides. For example, 2 x LT1, 1 x SST, 2 x mid-Z2 endurance. On that SST day, maybe do “lactate clearance” O/U to mix it up.

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Got a CTS email in my inbox last week on The Role of Zone 2 Training During Indoor Cycling - worth a quick read IMHO.

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I estimated LT1 at 210w from my ramp test a few posts up. Xert has it at 213w, with an FTP of 270w.

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Really depends on what his goals are. Lots of ways to go after raising VO2max - aerobic build into FTP work, high power lactate clearance/tolerance, anaerobic work. Just depends on what the athlete wants/needs.

The thing I’m finding more and more about this stuff, and even FTP, etc., is using the data to inform “feel”. HR and power (to a lesser extent) will change with a lot of different variables, and sometimes with these tests we are splitting hairs trying to determine if LT1 is at 200 or 205W, when your power meter probably isn’t that accurate. I’m not convinced coaches should be measuring quite so much, when some blend of the empirical and the subjective is probably the right answer when it comes to both testing and day-to-day application. Educating athletes on RPE (not the numerical value, but the actual feeling of certain intensities) is a big part of coaching, IMO.

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Agree. He solicited suggestions. That’s what we were doing.

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Here’s my data:
image

And a couple of recent rides:


Most recent Ramp Test (Feb. 1):

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Yep, I just didn’t see what his goals were, so it’s tough to answer. :slightly_smiling_face:

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I can’t tell you how excited I am to be freeing up time to increase my Z2 time. I’ve seen great gains the last year by adding Z2 time to interval workouts, but I’m typically capped at 90 min and about 10hrs per week. I’m going to have to hold myself back on my volume increase because the brain and excitement will want to go straight to 14 hours/week, but my body has never done that before. :laughing: Seems like a bad idea to go from 500+TSS per week up to 600 or 650 overnight even if it’s all Z2 addition, but what do I know? :upside_down_face:

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My only goal at present is to be reasonably fit and have fun riding when the weather turns.

To be “reasonably fit” the way I think of things, will require a couple blocks of actual training. Since LT1 focus worked well in past that’s going to be the core. I’d like to experiment with a VO2 block the way Kolie described doing it. After that, probably will just ride for fun while and not watch numbers. Or, since there are some mountain bike climbs I want to conquer without dabs, am thinking about a short power block.

It was the comment above that had me thinking about what to do after an LT1 block stopped giving improvements. Lets call it improvements as measured by a good FTP test, perhaps with a 40km TT in mind. Without opening that can of worms on how to test because we have enough threads on that.

Here. is my perspective:

  • I don’t do lactate testing so for me its “zone2” work (power if good zones, otherwise HR)
  • all year round there is a foundation of 4-5 hours/week zone2 work (or one z2 session, and another with some tempo thrown in)
  • a lot of z2 work is done in 70-75% range. Works for me on a target of 8-12 hour/week. If I’m not recovering well during a week, for whatever reason, I dial it back z2 intensity and try “sleeping harder” LOL
  • indirectly measure year over year improvements, since you are looking at lactate perhaps add gas exchange testing and look for these first two improvements: https://twitter.com/Alan_Couzens/status/1487503284780691456
  • the weekly foundation of z2 over 2 year timeframe has really improved all aspects of my performance (and life), its a form of conditioning that pays dividends over the long term
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I’d do an aerobic build focused on threshold work and over-unders, probably one session each per week, progressive after VO2max work then. If you do the block of training, recover well, and then hit threshold work you’ll likely see an FTP increase.

Following that FTP bump, you could then focus on your short power.

All of this augmented by a good amount of work in zone 2 approaching LT1, really as much as you have time for and can handle.

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I had not looked at Couzens’ twitter in some time. He also has this gem below. Fairly certain I pushed VT1 to >75% Now becoming more interested in how to push VO2max higher. And how to orient the blocks over time. Hence the prior interest in the types of blocks Kolie has discussed (VO2).

#Periodization for the endurance athlete simplified:
- Push VT1 to >75% VO2max
- Push VT2 to >85% VO2max
- Push VO2max to new level#RinseAndRepeat

— Alan Couzens (@Alan_Couzens) February 8, 2022
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I think this is also relevant from another recent thread by Alan (only have screenshot I saved I’m afraid…) - particularly the VT1 to VT2 gap of >10%

image

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Alan was also asked in the thread if he was talking HR or Power with VT1/ VT2…he noted…

% VO2 (ml/kg/min or L/min) but, assuming relatively constant economy, power will be close

On this basis I did some of my own simple maths…I need to validate my LT1 again but I think I have a little bit of work to do :slight_smile:

image

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I’ve used the apps to find LT1 @ 0.75 DFA-1a. This gives me a consistent HR number for LT1 of 154bpm (max 187), so of course power at that HR can vary, but it would usually be about 15-20w HIGHER than my Xert LTP.

Today Xert says 192w / FTP 255w
154bpm would usually be 210-215w ish for a typical ride (but obviously varies with environmental and fatigue vairables etc)
WKO says 263w mFTP

Today I rode 2hrs easy z2 around 150-180w and the last 30 mins I rode low cadence 210w and it felt pretty easy. Stupidly forgot my HR strap in a rush to get out the door, but HR was less than my estimated LT1. I could easily have ridden that another hour if I hadn’t run out of time.

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Q: How to get an approximation of these numbers without lab testing? Something like this?

VO2-max power = max 1m from ramp test (or max 5m power?)
LT2 = FTP (from long test, e.g. the Kolie Moore protocol)
LT1 = from DFA-a1 test

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your numbers are very similar to mine. I weight 68kg. I’m in the offseason doing LT1 using XERT’s Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds 90min - 120min indoor. 0.75 DFA says LT1 = 151 bpm

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