Im on the facebook group, that is why I thought they pretty much given up on it. Ill look back at some point and see if there is any hint of progress.
There was a poll a while back asking how we would determine it.
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Wow, sounds familiar but I only did during ride and after ride checks for 5 months. Got tired of it. Attia is not messing around. I feel lazy now, and cheap. Costs him like a dollar a ride 
(assuming he gets his strips from Jerry)
āTrainer Roadā. See that?
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I reviewed his numbers on that sheet of paper, and comments on lactate variations. Simply reinforced my pragmatic trending analysis of power @ 140-bpm (my HR proxy for LT1).
I use the talk test. I started about 20 watts lower than Iām at now last year. Todayās workout was 2 1/2 hrs steady at upper zone 2. Watched British Detective shows.
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Steve Magness had good post on zones. Basically, donāt get too caught up in the precision of zones and overemphasize it.
the zones and the borders between them are arbitrary. For the most part, they are not concrete. Even though we treat them as such.
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Hahahaā¦we all thought similar. Good 'ole sryke!
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I beg to take note of the entire statement 
By the way, I really like him as a podcast host. Enjoyable.
And I found it interesting to note how he stayed silent with this recent polarized battle. He is even an author of the pro paper. He is pretty smart with ducking his head on social media. He figured this out early, Iāve noticed this several times now.
Mmmm ā¦ we should really open up a socia media thread.
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You guys think Iām a ranting whiner over this stuff now? Go ahead and open a social media thread if you want to watch a grown ass man cry and lose his mind in real-time. Youāll be able to follow my descent into madness from each successive post.
For the love of all that is holyā¦donāt start one Iām begging you.
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I liked his āalmost haikuā
Lots of easy
Occasionally go hard, vary it up
Very rarely, go see God.
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How are people getting on training with lactate?
hmm, I thought this was the āhow do you estimate/guess at first (aerobic) lactate thresholdā to help with training thread.
Iāve self-estimated endurance/zone2 HR using long 8-12 hour rides in the mountains as āall day HRā and aerobic threshold.
After a couple months where life had me doing lower training volume, a month later Iām back to all-time (previous was 2017) high power at top of endurance/zone2 HR. Those rides are in 80-90F / 27-32C temps, versus earlier this season the temps were around 60F / 16C for same power-to-HR. Yes there is a vo2 bump from training in the heat, and its mostly offset by training in the heat. Iām starting to think it might be a good idea to try the sauna at the gym when temps drop in late October.
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So apparently mobile metabolic cart products are coming to the market. I have never heard of this start up company nor do I even know if this works or is credible, but, if anyone wants to measure the breath for metabolic calculations and analysis this product exists:
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VO2 Master has been out for years but itās $5000+ so this will be interesting if itās accurate.
Interesting that it doesnāt quote any data comparing it to a properly calibrated metabolic cart or similar. Also can a company such as this be viable just selling one product with no ongoing revenue stream via a subscription. Remember Humox muscle oxygen sensor and Oura ring went to a subscription model after 2/3 years. All the āreviewsā Iāve found just seem to be regurgitated press releases. Iāll be watching it though with interest.
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Iām not sure about the low hanging fruit part. Endurance physiology studies have maybe dozens of participants and in the grand scheme of things, thereās a tiny amount of research thatās been done into any of this. I think weāve just scratched the surface.
After 2 years of doing more endurance focused work I have a good graph from Intervals.icu on power-vs-HR at relatively the same FTP:
That is % threshold HR (LTHR).
Previous seasons I did not have good data between 90-150W. Whatās somewhat interesting is its basically a straight-line below FTP, which is what Iāve seen in several studies on PubMed.
That graph does require some context, as it can reflect the type of intervals you do, if you do some z1 work, etc., etc.
The ābenchesā at 83% and 85% and 88% LTHR are interesting, however Iām not sure if they reflect the work Iām doing or have some basis in physiology. I will say that 83% is where I detect a small change in breathing, during warmups. And that 88% is an average HR that I can sustain on harder 6-7 hour efforts without feeling crushed for days.
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Thanks for sharing, some comments:
Itās really a shame. You have been training for 7 years and canāt produce a chart with at least 2-3 different āseasonsā.
Thatās why I always advice ppl that if they are going for powermeter, always get dual side and a high quality one.
Too short and too early for effective detection
This type of chart is mostly (only?) useful for comparisons in my opinion. You need at least 2 curves.
I believe your āaverageā methodology is quite flawed, if I understood it correctly. Unless you have a ride with steady HR 88% of LTHR for 6-7 hours, I donāt think you can make the average claim.
Finally, itās interesting that your curve doesnāt exhibit the chaotic behavior typically observed above 120% of FTP.
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I cut off the chart above the āchaotic behaviorā which is primarily chaotic because of doing intervals, and above threshold its hard to hold long efforts before you hit a wall. Most of the efforts in that area of the chart are where Iām doing endurance at say 138bpm and then do some 350W intervals and the first set is skewed to a HR below LTHR. And then a set break to bring HR back down again. That chart requires some context. I havenāt recently done a bunch of 13x30/15 or similar where it might provide a little better data to remove the chaos.
FWIW I do have rides for 5-8 hours with fairly steady HR 88%.
This is really an interesting comment. I had many seasons without ālong enoughā steady efforts below 150w and you immediately bring up shame and comparing different seasons.
What does comparing a shift have to do with estimating LT1 without a blood test? If the curve I posted above shifted to the right, how can you use that to estimate LT1?
Are you planning to share anything with this thread?
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I assumed you werenāt able to compare seasons because quality of data. I guess Iām confused as to why you canāt use the compare chart as intended.
I think if LT1 is within the shifted section of the curve, you can demonstrate an improvement.
I started my cycling journey with RPE and HR, went on a power, lactate rabbit hole and came back to HR and RPE. Is good enoughā¦for endurance stuff. I know what happy tempo feels and I like to keep most of my endurance rides a notch or two under that, with selected excursions above.
Xert TP and LTP are pretty good boundaries for training when hibernation comes, as for power based numbers.
60% of Karvonen Heart Rate Reserve is also pretty good for estimating LT1.
Heat is the most important variable for HR based training of endurance.
Thereās an unhealthy obsession with āsteadyā efforts in my opinion. This is driven by the research side of thing that have a hard time modeling reality.
88% of Max or 88% of LTHR? I have to see to believe. So you can ride 8 hours with no downhill? Or is this an indoor ride?