Super resonate with everything you said.
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When my ftp increases went from big jumps to tiny increments, I decided to see what would happen if I just stopped accepting anything less than a 5 watt increase. I did that for a while and teammates started noticing how much longer I was starting to stick with the lead group. After so much positive feedback I jumped completely off book and tried block periodization. Jury still out on whether that vo2 block was worth it, but I’m definitely much stronger.
** caveat: race results still bad so far because I’ve neglected my top end.
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I am currently ignoring AIFTP and increasing time in zone every SS workout which is obviously increased PL’s. I’ve always been pretty terrible at sweet spot efforts and I’m finally seeing improvements. I also manually decreased my FTP by 10 watts as my sweet spot was feeling like threshold. I’ll eventually hit that AIFTP button but not until I’m happy with my TTE.
Anecdata: I have yet to have someone come to me from a TR or Zwift training plan where they were using a ramp test that had an FTP even remotely close to reality, and not all of them are strong anaerobically. In one case, the difference was more than 15% (30W). I have friends who have used ramp tests previous to hiring other coaches with the same experience. A ramp test should never be used to estimate FTP IMO.
AIFTPD I have limited experience with. One guy came and his FTP was pretty close, but he had also done some long, extended, max efforts. As with any of that stuff, the quality of the data you put in results in the quality of the data you get out.
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i’ve come to the belief that if you are doing the workouts and not failing it’ll recommend a 2% increase, even in cases where I wasn’t doing any threshold work but simply doing longer sweet spot. but that’s just what was coming up for me when I was subbed
I can’t say either way. I suspect it works a lot like Xert/WKO both of which will also give you a pretty good number provided you’re doing maximal efforts periodically. That’s where my hesitation to “endorse” it comes in, because TR plans so rarely have you doing any kind of maximal effort, let alone a sustained one, because people just don’t like doing them and their business is selling subs. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that).
The last guy who came to me off a ramp test (Zwift) tried to hold his ramp test FTP for his initial 20-minute MMP test with me and made it about 10-12 minutes in before he blew up. I’d love to say that’s unusual, but it’s been pretty typical of my experiences with your “average” ramp testers.
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totally agree, i don’t coach anyone (yet!) but if someone comes to me saying they did a ramp test for their ftp, i’d immediately lop off maybe 5% and give them that as a target to test out on a tte effort
separate general point regarding the thread topic: it shouldn’t be surprising to me that people would want to see ever increasing FTP, but as someone who has done 1x90 at 90% and even recently I did 2x50min at 90%, it is INCREDIBLY satisfying being to ride that hard for so long. Building up an endurance engine like that just gives me confidence to do almost anything I want. Accepting ftp increases and keeping PL stagnant, in my view, is a bit limiting. I would definitely encourage people to build out their subthreshold time.
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Agreed, a 5-10W FTP bump is nice. But doing 4x30m SS during a 6 hour ride and finishing feeling tired but like you could keep going is amazing. Until you start doing extended tempo/SS/threshold intervals you are leaving lots of room for growth on the table.
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For me it was more like 40w too high when I started TR with a ramp test last year. Every upcoming TS workout (at an entry level PL) gave my anxiety attacks 2d before. As I never did ERG riding before I assumed that this might just be what people mean when they say “I am training hard”.
Fell sick 2 times before I tried to actually find the power I could hold (which was roughly -40w).
I unsubscribed and still suffer from TR PTSD. In case I’d ever try it again I would start with a manually set FTP of which I am sure is too low and adjust my way up into the mid range of the SP/TS PL’s and then take it from there.
If there would be a competetive “ramp test sport” I think I would sign up. I feel that could be something I I’d have changes to do good at.
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Ha! That’s amazing.
There was criticism of TR from coaches that I respect that basically said they were training to the (ramp) test. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that my highest ramp test result was after short power build the one time I did it in like 2018. I tested a 288W FTP, but I don’t think I ever held over 280 in that time for any meaningful amount of time.
My performance really took off when I had time and went back to self-coaching, testing by actually DOING relevant stuff instead of just trying to estimate it with goofy tests, and got back to doing long intervals at/near threshold regularly instead of 30 minutes of actual work “crammed” into an hour of riding.
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I haven’t done it personally but I’ve always heard of points and other types of track racing described as ‘real life ramp tests’.
This is me. 2.8 threshold is miserable and generally a fail without a rest day before it yet 7.8 VO2Max is type 2 fun.
This sure seems worth a shot. Today I finished my last goal event for months.
I just manually took my FTP from 255 to 235. I have done that for a hour a couple times in the last few months, but it was a zwift TTT with 1min pulls which lets me put out higher average than steady state by myself so I might still be lying to myself. I am much stronger over under than steady.
Gonna see if i cant get my threshold and sweetspot power levels to the 7s before I consider moving ftp at all.
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