This cannot be emphasized enough. The traits of a gravel bike that some on this board yearn for are not what the average consumer walking into a bike shop (or is even thinking about).
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Tom Pidcock was in the Peloton… he should know right? I’m just saying tires are a personal thing and likely dependent on the course. The gravel on most Lifetime races is pretty chunky (90s MTB worthy even?) so ya, MTB tires might be an advantage there. But Koretzky won an XCC on 47 pathfinders (Blevins was second with 2.5” Captains in the same race) this year. So maybe not?
@tiptoppenguin yes it wasn’t most of the course and lots of pavement. So doesn’t this confirm the wider isn’t always better?
I have no horse in this race and like I said, I prefer wider tires personally. I’m just playing devils advocate here against the bigger, wider = better. As always… it depends.
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New BMC URS. Nothing interesting stands out to me on the bike(s), but you can watch Ben trucking a brand new $12k gravel bike through some frame-polishing mud.
I guess my point is that stage had nowhere near enough gravel to be brought into a gravel bike / tire debate which is the topic of this thread after all.
Also agree wider isn’t ALWAYS better but I wouldn’t buy a gravel bike tomorrow if I can’t fit on at least 2.1 for example. If i am dropping thousands of dollars I want that frame to work for champaign gravel, Unbound, and the rocky / single track sections every race organizer seems to be throwing in right now.
Anecdotal evidence but I’ve raced the same race on the same frame three times with specialized pathfinder 38,42,47 and don’t think it’s a coincidence my times were the fastest and my body felt the best on the 47. I think rolling resistance aside I find my body is able to save way more energy when I’m running these chunky tires and feel way more fresh near the end of the race.
Just my two cents.
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Try a terra speed 45, to me they feel way better than pathfinders. But they wear way faster is the tradeoff.
Literally ordered them earlier today lol will report back 
Optimal tire width for any event has a U shaped curve: If you are narrower than the optimum, you could realize gains by going wider. If you are wider than the optimum, you would benefit from going narrower.
But the shape of the “U” isn’t the same for every course / race / stage. It depends upon the your size, the course / race / stage length, your average speed, the mix and quality of tarmac / gravel / dirt, the elevation gain (and where the elevation gain happens), etc.
If we eliminate snow and velodromes as surfaces, plus limit this to road / “gravel” races / courses / stages, then in general the optimum tire width is somewhere between 28mm - 55mm for any course.
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When racing I wouldn’t use the downtube storage. However, 90% of the time I’m training and not racing, so it’s nice to have it then. So put me in the camp that doesn’t like Trek eliminating it on the Checkmate.
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Agree. I was disappointed to see the clearance on the Checkmate not increase over the outgoing Checkpoint SLR which I currently ride. Had they increased it from 45 to 50mm, it would have made for a very compelling argument to go all in on a new bike with the new XLPR groupset. Undoubtedly Trek’s already prototyping 800 series OCLV carbon frames with increased clearance.
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There is also the huge advantage to the extra clearance on a muddy course like Unbound 2023. Having a bike with more clearance would have gotten more people to the finish that year including some of the pros.
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100%. And for me, it’s as much about pressure as it is tire width. Sure, those 2 things are related, but there are courses I’m fine running a 38 well under 30psi and there are courses where that would be a recipe for pinch flats and I’d go with a much bigger tire. All else being equal, wider tires are heavier and less aero, so it doesn’t make much sense going bigger than required to get the optimal tire pressure. There are handling factors also with wider tires, but again a lot of that is about pressure as much as size. Lower pressure isn’t better as the surface gets smoother (that’s the one thing I actually believe about the BRR drum testing).
And case in point, the only gravel/groad race I’ve ever won outright was a 70+ mile solo break away riding a rim brake aero madone on 28’s on old zipp 404s (tubes and all) probably pumped up to around 60psi. Would have run 32’s, but no clearance. That was in 2020 when gravel was really starting to explode around here and everyone else was on gravel bikes and probably running 38 ramblers (or whatever tire won DK the previous year) even though the majority of the course was smoother than asphalt (dirt roads, but really, really smooth). I held my breath every time I hit actual gravel, but managed not to flat. I wasn’t the strongest in the field by a long shot, but I guarantee my setup was 30-40 watts faster than what others were riding and a big part of that was tire/pressure choice. Horses (ie tires and bikes) for courses.
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maybe some. I had a Seigla running 45s and that mud was so sticky and filled with bits of gravel it would build up within 20 feet trying to ride through it.
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The plot thickens …
So finery posted on IG and I’ll be damned that looks like a 2.25 Aspen on his front. No way that actually fits with 45mm clearance right? Maybe Maxxis is working on smaller sizes? That could be interesting too.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C-1UC2pu05L/?igsh=eHUwbjQxbGhqdnJ4
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He said it’s a 2.1 in the comments. Bicycle Station vid shows the fork has more clearance than the chainstays - this is a 700x45mm tire:
(around 6:20 if the sync doesn’t work)
Those are valid points: conditions are important and riders like MvdP who have an off road background. I would still say that the pro peloton is a lagging indicator and that in a few years the gravel stage(s) become more gnarly. Route choice is definitely a factor.
Another factor are sponsors, riders don’t necessarily ride the best equipment (in the estimation of the athletes, not us). Not sure even lovers of Shimano drivetrains want a Shimano power meter …
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Yup. It is akin to the cobbles in my mind: since the majority is paved, athletes have to optimize their setup for the paved portion, but they are slower on the cobbles (or gravel) than with a setup optimized just for that portion.
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Perhaps this should be the Direction of niche gravel race bikes.
Have been able to buy decent steel frames with big clearance for many years now.
Fairlight, here in the UK, make some lovely bikes and some of them are no slouches. The Secan can run 27.5×2.4" tyres with few (if any) propietary parts.
It does feel like the big brands are slowly iterating out to 2.1" and it has taken aaaages. Presumably this has been good for the small companies that did it years ago, who sell well in the gravel/bikepacking/ultra racing scenes.
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ISO standard is 6mm on each side
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Why don’t bike manufacturers start putting some metal wear plates in the fork and chain stay? I’ve damaged an older road bike this way just riding on wet gravel (not some crazy sticky muddy mess) that rubbed the paint off inside the chain stay and fork.
For the pros it sounds like in some cases the ‘muddy unbound frame’ just goes straight in the garbage but I would think for less than 100g you could put metal wear plates in the fork and chain stay that would prevent that damage.
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Yeah but tiny clearance. Something a pro can do, but not someone who rides the same fork for a couple years. I mean i can fit a 2.1 mezcal on my specialized, but i dont do it cause it gonna scar the fork over time.
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