Doing a "sweep" of all your levels

[BT-7274]

@matthew.weigel

I’ve switched over to TrainNow this year, and I’ve found that as long as I have a day of not cycling between workouts, it generally recommends Productive instead of Achievable workouts. To get from 1.0 to 5.0 across 2-3 levels could take 8-12 workouts over 2-3 weeks. And those easier workouts are still productive, giving you time in zone and consistency that are strong predictors of future performance. A PL 2 sweet spot workout isn’t going to be as productive as 3x20s, but it’s still productive, and the TR argument is that after an FTP increase, you’re better served by maximizing consistency than maximizing the value of any individual session.

Also, while progression levels give you some idea of where you are, keep in mind that (for example) those 3x20 sweet spot workouts are extremely productive every time you do them (and recover from them), even without changing your FTP or shifting progression levels. Any workout that is hard enough (in the context of all your workouts) to disrupt homeostasis and trigger super-compensation is productive.

On the other hand, absolutely look at the workouts recommended, and ad

The productive workouts are only productive if your levels are high enough. That is why I suggested doing an initial sweep of every level instead of grinding away for weeks with workouts that are too easy for an experienced cyclist.

[Dylan_van_Green]

Oh I see.

This post and the whole (but short) thread has some useful info on how the PLs work, I found this interesting:

https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/increasing-ftp-v-working-up-through-the-pls/69488/3?u=dylan_van_green

To the other point

@BT-7274

Frankly, experienced cyclists should not be doing workouts below a level four or so, assuming their FTP is accurate.

I think TrainerRoad is telling you they don’t agree. On this, I also thought this post and (again short) thread was a good read (there are probably lots of others):

Reviewing the new TR plan...rolling road race

A little late to the game here since I didn’t want to say anything until the plan was actually done. Since the new plans were just released & a stage race was just completed I decided to use mid-volume Rolling Road Race to train for my next event: A flattish 50 mile gravel race. My training is in that ‘tweener’ zone where mid volume really isn’t enough work for me but high volume is totally beyond the pale. Usually a mid-vol plan gets scheduled and then I’ll fill it in with quite a bit more …

You can manually adjust FTP but not the progression levels. Doing the sweep sounds like doing a series of very hard workouts as a means of ‘manually’ adjusting the PLs. Seems like you could achieve the same thing and get the PLs changed to your satisfaction by just manually lowering your FTP by 20/30w or so. It looks like from what was posted above that TR would then adjust the PLs up, so you would be served those level of workouts in the plans and get to use all the adaptive stuff going forward.

If you know what you want, you can ignore the progression levels and the workout levels, programme for yourself from the workout library. But if you think there’s any benefit to this adaptive stuff and you want to make use of it, you need to stay broadly within the TR ‘system’.

[ChefAcB]

I wonder if workout levels change over time based on user input? For example was a level 5 threshold now a 4.5 because they have more data? @Nate_Pearson

[Nate_Pearson]

Not yet. We might change ramp rates for levels or certain groups.

But there will be some tweaking coming up when we release a new system to score inside/outside workouts.

[Bbt67]

@Dylan_van_Green

Seems like you could achieve the same thing and get the PLs changed to your satisfaction by just manually lowering your FTP by 20/30w or so. It looks like from what was posted above that TR would then adjust the PLs up, so you would be served those level of workouts in the plans and get to use all the adaptive stuff going forward.

That doesnt work / have the desired effect.
The only way that seems to work is to sub in stretch or breakthrough workouts.
Having said that I think sweeping the levels is a bad idea.
Agree with others the level reduction after a ftp rise seems too aggressive for many.
I dont agree with the “just let AT do its thing…” I see people three weeks after a FTP change still at around Level 2 (starting around 1.2 and gaining +0.2 to 0.3 a week) when they are more than capable of level 5.

[BT-7274]

It might not be a good idea after a big bump, but if you’re an experienced cyclist just starting with AT, I think it’s fine.

I’ve done breakthroughs for three levels so far and they just long, not hard. Vo2max was more fun than hard.