Just FYI - I think they only refer to people as ‘coach’ that are certified through USAC or some other governing body. Basically meaning they’ve taken the official training courses. Feel free to give her whatever title you’d like, but I think that’s the reason they don’t call her Coach Amber
2 Likes
Very similar (think) - based upon SS as Frank is one of the early adopters/developers (?) of the SS system.
Could be totally wrong as I’ve been self coached for a while now and not up to date on offerings.
I think this might be the thing that is missing? better tools to let you implement your own interpretation of the available science?
Or at least let me adjust to my level of motivation/commitment in a more structured way than me replacing the workouts (I always feel a bit “finger in the wind” when I do this myself). Maybe that would undermine the confidence the product to potential customers though…
Or be insanely complex, one of the two 
Have you listened to Franks " How I INVENTED SWEET SPOT TRAINING" ?podcast, sorry capitals as I cut and pasted it.
2 Likes
In the distant past, yes.
I like the FasCat content, despite not necessarily agreeing with all of the positions taken, but usually quite entertaining.
I think it makes sense to have a predefined plan which we can adjust to our needs. Ultimately, either removing an intense session and/or adding endurance too the plan. For some going for a minus/plus option might also do the trick.
Anyway, my point was more that it is easier to cut out an intense session. When adding a ride (not endurance) one has to worry about progression etc which is a bit more of a challenge. 
2 Likes
Yes, that is exactly how I add volume to my training. Tried to follow a medium volume a few years ago and completely failed. Defaulted back to low volume with endurance rides added and it works well for me. Goes more toward the piramidal training plan.
3 Likes
I am going to go out on limb and guess the some of main talking points for the podcast tomorrow are going to be similar to the things that have been in many previous podcast and summarized nicely in one posted in this thread.
Most cyclist are not Dylan Johnson or similar level professional Cyclists caliber a
Most people who train with Dylan are more likely to be higher level cyclist than some dude off the street. Financially there is a big difference between 20 a month and whatever he is charging for one on one coaching
From a pure watts perspective low intensity for Dylan Johnson has much more intensity than normal people
Trainer Road probably has pretty strong understanding on who their base customer base is.
I am going to hypothesize that more customers are willing to comply, maintain subscriptions using current plans
from my n=1 perspective TRUE HIIT is very hard to do just once let alone on any regular frequency
5 Likes
I’ve been doing TR (SS MV Base) for nearly the full 3 months - probably did over 95% of the sessions (all at 100%).
Not a watt of improvement - it simply didn’t work for me. In fact I’ve found real road rides really really hard.
In previous years I’ve done traditional base - 1~2 sub FTP sessions per week plus 5~6 hrs Z2 (road) and always improved.
Breaking News - We’re All Different!
2 Likes
While doing traditional base I didn’t go over FTP - so personally I wouldn’t call that polarised (unlike the Wattbike base plan)
Ah! semantics don’t matter, whats does matter is that I’m slower now having done three month of SS training.
So my engine isn’t as good as it was 3months ago and I’m less well prepared for the Build Period.
I know that I gain a lot for those long Sunday rides - which I don’t get from 2hrs SS.
BTW I’m actually fine with that - I now know does / doesn’t work for me 
2 Likes
Yes, and very often things like sleep, stress management and nutrition are major factors. Plus the usual: going for a mid-volume plan right away.
1 Like
To me that sounds like you did not get enough recovery, i. e. you don’t have proper load/rest cycles. Mid-volume may have been too much volume for you. You can’t directly compare indoor and outdoor rides. Before joining TR, I would frequently do 9-hour rides plus some shorter hill repeats during the week. The load was not comparable — just because you can do 8 hours of riding without structure doesn’t mean you can replace that with 6 hours of structured training. Sleep is hugely important. For my new season I made it a rule that without at least 7:30 of sleep, I’m not going on the trainer. That’s because with my new MV+/HV- plan, in my experience I need 30-60 minutes more sleep each night than before.
Note that my comments apply also for polarized training plans — any periodized plan, really — and are not specific to TR’s plans, including sweet spot.
Rest and recovery are crucial to get fitness improvements, and like others have said, not all fitness improvements are measured in FTP. For example, you could lose weight while keeping your FTP constant — which results in a higher specific power (W/kg). Or you could just be able to hang in there longer.
1 Like
Ah, ok, I didn’t know that, that makes sense.
I’m really looking forward to the TR response to this, I know they’ll take the feedback in stride and share their insights rather than be defensive. (I’m hoping anyway.)
For the record, my coach isn’t a Youtube poster, but he told me the intensity was too much during my first consultation with him, aligned to what DJ said. I don’t think the persecution of DJ should have resulted by many as a result of that video, his arguments were pretty concise (and it seems many would agree with his position).
5 Likes
Who is your coach?
I’m not sure that you’d know him, but if you let me know what city you’re in, and you’re close I’m happy to give a recommendation.
No coach on the planet is going to prescribe 6 months at that intensity before an A event, SSB1&2 is tough, to take on a build and specialty phase after is madness. YMMV, but I’m sure if we could see data on plan completion rates (would be even better with surveys on why people don’t finish the entire base, build, specialty programs) I’m sure it would be quite evident.
Disclaimer, still a TR subscriber, still they’re good folks, just realizing why I wasn’t completing or losing interest through the program, it became evident when I saw how a coach approaches a “6 months until A event” cycle. DJ’s video just helped summarize and maybe validate what my coach said when we first started talking about the longer term plan.
2 Likes
For the past month I’ve been doing a LITHV/HITLV type plan – only 2 days of intensity/wk @ 97% + as much Z2 as I can cram in (~16hrs/wk) – and I’m already far ahead of any TR plan in terms of 'Week 7" workouts.
All I can say is I almost never feel knackered and when I do it’s about a 4/10 vs the 8/10 fatigue I got doing TR HV plans. Doing MUCH less and getting stronger is always nice.
The intensity of TR is fine, it’s the frequency that’ll kill ya!
11 Likes
Whilst I don’t know what or who FasCats is, I took a similar approach following comments made by Pete on the Podcast.
I shuffle my TR workouts so that my hardest or the most important (as gauged by me) workout comes first. Then Sweet Spot, followed by endurance. I will often finish my prescribed TR workouts on a Friday with more Sweet Spot. This sets me up nicely for the weekend.
Having that decrease in intensity throughout the week is, for me, both mentally and physically beneficial.
4 Likes
Ben Kanute did Galena +3 with added zone two/three time today. At least something very similar. Apparently pros do like sweetspot too.
I’ve been training for a few years with / without a coach and I know my recovery was fine.