Garmin detects new FTP after TR workout

I have never seen the behavior with my 935.
I suspect the algorithm is “tweaked” on the newest devices.
not sure if i trust any of the Garmin metrics.

If you feel you can complete the wo… go for it!

1 Like

I’m going to try it out. Next workout I have scheduled is Galena (3x 20 minutes Sweetspot) so I should have a good idea if its right or not.

1 Like

Garmin auto calculated FTP is based on HRV deflection point. I relies on quality source of HR data (IOW if you are using optical HR sensor or chest strap which produce a lot of artifacts, discard whatever value it provides). :slight_smile: On the other hand with good input data it could estimate your FTP quite correctly.

I would rather stick with one testing protocol unless you deliberately want to test something new on yourself. :slight_smile:

My 520 is similar vintage and also did a decent job at FTP estimation.

Garmin has been improving the FTP estimates in 530 software updates its right in those release notes.

Here are the things that I have found with 530 bike computer:

  • pretty accurate FTP estimates
  • training impact well aligned with both the workout goals and WKO
  • load focus last 4 weeks is pretty accurate (at least while following non-TR plans that have more z2 work)
  • VO2max values 1-2ml/kg/min higher than WKO, for example WKO gives 42 and Garmin gives 43

I’d say no and I don’t agree with the “if you can complete the work idea”. Do a proper test if there is a question.

The plans have you working certain systems. If FTP is wrong then, while you may be able to get through the workouts, you might be working the wrong systems. Of course, 6 watts isn’t a huge difference but I wouldn’t try to outthink TR’s system with input from a Garmin head unit.

I wonder if the difference is that garmin is using peak 1 min power vs TR that is ramp.

From Firstbeat website, I assume this is the latest algorithm because the previous worked differently AFAIK

To calculate your FTP, the Firstbeat Analytics engine requires a stable VO2max estimate and enough quality heartbeat data recorded across a range of different intensities from low to high.

and

Once this data is obtained, the Firstbeat Analytics engine identifies your FTP level by isolating the deflections in your heart rate variability that correlate to key indications of how your respiration patterns respond to the intensity of your activity.

and

Because HRV data is needed for this feature, use of a chest-strap heart rate monitor is required.

My first observation is that while doing TR’s SSB 1 there isn’t a lot of quality HR data at high intensities. And while I got some higher HR intensities in TR’s SSB 2, I’m definitely getting more/higher using another plan and primarily training outside and including some max effort sprints every week. For example that October 6th 30-sec sprint workout I mentioned was full gas / max effort sprints, and at the end of ride I got an FTP update notification.

FWIW when doing TR workouts outside I’m modifying them a bit and tossing in max efforts. So a year ago while following TR’s traditional base 1 and 2, my 530 was giving reasonable FTP efforts because of the way I execute the TR workouts outside.

If you are going to increase your FTP on the Garmin I’d definitely recommend changing it in TR otherwise the Garmin is going to think everything suddenly got easier for you when you are following TR workouts and that is going to throw out all of your other metrics. If you can’t handle the TR workouts at the new number then reduce both back down, I always keep mine matched.

I decided to update my FTP in TR as well and see where that takes me the next week(s). It’s only a 6W difference and after all the Ramp Test was also in a way a snapshot. FYI a month or two before the TR Ramp I had an FTP of 287 (measured via Zwift). So I feel that I’m comfortably within a certain range. In any case I can always switch it back.

Little concerned about:

The plans have you working certain systems. If FTP is wrong then, while you may be able to get through the workouts, you might be working the wrong systems.

Is someone from the TR team perhaps able to comment/advise?

Imagine 2x20m SST workout prescribed at 90% of FTP. If you set your FTP wrong (ie. 330W instead of 300W), will you be able to finish the workout? Yes. Riding for 2x20m at your FTP isn’t a problem. Will you hit the target of that workout? No. The workout was prescribed at Sweetspot yet you complete it in Threshold zone. Subsequently the plan counts with a ride below your FTP. Riding at or just below your FTP have different physiological cost and recovery.

6W difference? Day to day difference might have higher variation than that. If you feel good on last interval and your RPE is within normal or lower than normal then you can increase the target by a few watts. I would not bother adjusting FTP in between the FTP tests.

1 Like

I’ve been feeling this lately, that’s why I’m increasing it. It’s just 6w, it won’t change things that much.

If workouts like this can provide an accurate FTP then screw the ramp test! :rofl:

LOL if only!

Yeah, on a second thought, I’ll stick to my current FTP. Next ramp test is only 3 weeks away :man_shrugging:

You guys are not making this decision very easy, haha. My next Ramp Test is only planned for 16 February. Which surprises me because that seems so far away with a mid-volume triathlon plan.

When was your last ramp test? I’ve been doing them every 6 weeks.

One and only in TR so far was on 30 October.

I’m on an Iron Man 70.3 (half distance) mid-volume plan.

Usually TR schedules a ramp test in the beginning of every training block. You must have an extended base (sometimes plan builder changes the duration of blocks to adjust to the time available until the event).

I would add a Ramp test in the middle of that block to verify your ftp.

Added one in early December.

Also, took the executive decision to keep TR FTP at 279 (Ramp Test original) and just let the Garmin detect whatever. If anything it’s kind of a stimulus.