Got fired by my coach

Its a concept graph. At some point you can increase load and performance will decrease. Thats clearly time to back off and reduce load. That point is individual and one goal of training is to find it.

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So, it’s all or nothing?
I’d say about 99% of people riding bikes for a hobby don’t have a coach. Just ride and have fun like your (former) coach told you.
Or use TrainerRoad. AI will rearrange your schedule multiple times a day if you want. That’s what AI is good at.

I think you missed this part of my post…

Now, whether you need a coach is a different question entirely…I would argue that you can use TrainNow on TR and get a good return on your time investments.

There’s always the internet :man_shrugging:

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Except for the sleep quality part.

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The body gets used to it. Just takes time for the body clock to adjust like others have said.

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Don’t forget to carefully read the post when you respond in disagreement.

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Maybe the bold part?

Sleep time doesn’t equal quality sleep time.

Q. I have heard that you should not exercise at night because it can cause sleep problems. Is this true?

A. Traditionally, experts have recommended not exercising at night as part of good sleep hygiene. Now a new study, published Oct. 29, 2018, in Sports Medicine, suggests that you can exercise in the evening as long as you avoid vigorous activity for at least one hour before bedtime.

The researchers examined 23 studies that evaluated sleep onset and quality in healthy adults who performed a single session of evening exercise compared with similar adults who did not. They found that not only did evening exercise not affect sleep, it seemed to help people fall asleep faster and spend more time in deep sleep. However, those who did high-intensity exercise — such as interval training — less than one hour before bedtime took longer to fall asleep and had poorer sleep quality.

Ref: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy

Related subject…

This a side for someone struggling with consistency training in the early morning before is a very valid solution irrespective of if you are a Lark or Owl as unless you are on the extreme fringes generally this can easily be changed through consistent routine.

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It’s more a case of demonstrating diminishing returns. Thus you’ll get a bigger jump in performance moving from 3 to 5 hours than you will be moving from 5 to 7 hours. Eventually you top out the performance returns you can make. You can’t recover sufficiently by the time of the next session and things start declining.

If you are progressive with your loads then what happens is that the top of that curve shifts to the right as well as getting higher. You can absorb higher loads, and get bigger returns in performances year on year.

I think you have total missed the point :rofl:

I am not if anyone has said this ^

I thought the point was family time, getting it done before the family is up (or after the kids have gone to bed) :wink:

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I think the main argument for training early is that no one else is up and nothing has happened yet that could derail your workout. I know that if I left it for late, wife, kids, or job would interfere with a significant number of rides.

The flipside is that it’s hard to get up early and the discipline it takes could derail your workout on it’s own.

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Your example has you working out during what can be prime parenting and spouse/partner duty time. So no, those are not the same.

There is also the factor that hard training in the evening can affect sleep. I know I used to have that issue with the summer time training race that ended at 9pm.

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On more than a few Jonathan has mentioned this as a primary reason to workout early. Get it done before unexpected things during the day have time to make a workout impossible

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for some, but my reply was to Crosshair who says that isn’t a problem for him.

I had to stop doing the local Wednesday night mountain bike series because I couldn’t go to sleep after. Too much adrenaline and the legs felt like an oven even if I was on top of the covers.

However, no issues with doing trainer workouts at night, even intense ones. My kids are usually asleep by 19:45, so sometimes I end up doing 20:15-21:30 or so and go to bed a little after 22:00. If anything I feel better after those days.

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I am one of the minorities who are on the other end of the spectrum with time availability.

I need to leave for work at 5am and my preschooler is up every single day (regardless of bedtime) at 4-4:30AM.

I have never been a early bird but I absolutely am not getting up before 4:30AM to workout, my son simply will get up earlier if he heard someone moving around the house and I struggle to get up early anyways so I am not willing to fight that natural sleep pattern.

On the flip-side, my son is in bed at 6-6:30pm, so that means I have a few hours of no-one disturbing me after he goes to bed… Well now add my 2nd son (1 y/o), he jacks it all up because he kind of does whatever he wants when it comes to sleep (he will almost never sleep without momma).

The 2nd son will go down around 6:30-7pm and give his mom 1-1.5hr (right now) until he wants her again (still nurses, for now) and then after that about another hour before she is done for the day and retires for the night (she firmly believes in co-sleeping with this one, the first born wanted nothing to do with co-sleeping).

If I hit the bed at 9:30pm, that give me 3hrs for workout, cleaning, relaxing spousal conversation and sometimes 2nd dinner (we typically eat with the kids at 3:30-4pm). I also am able to fall asleep roughly 1-1.5hrs after intense workouts, because either I have too or I have learned too and im exhausted at this point.

I guess what I am saying is, you just have to do it when you can. I cant tell you how many times a 1hr trainer ride takes 90-100mins to complete because I have had to start/stop to help with the children and that’s perfectly fine.

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Slighty more context in the tweet

That being said, I am not entirely sure what the connection between the conclusion post @stanion and the tweet from Alan Couzens is.

Perhaps @stanion can elaborate?

The graph helps illustrate that there are large gains to be had when you are in the lower left corner. You can provide your body nearly any stimulus to achieve a response in that region. The further along the curve you move, the more you deliberately need to plan the training dose to achieve your desired response, and a coach is very helpful for that. The anabolic and catabolic processes have exponential rates, but the catabolic processes are far faster, so you need to sustain a certain amount of consistency to allow the anabolic to dominate (which is easily visualized in TRIMP or TSS graphs). If the catabolic dominates, you return to the beginner state, and a coach isn’t really providing any value there, particularly if you’ll keep returning to the beginner state due to insufficient time invested in training (although, once in your 40’s and dealing with sarcopenia, you become weaker unless you slowly increase work load and consistency over time).

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