Since I just did a 4hr z2 ride two weeks ago i’ll do a modified Hunter with an additional block of Z2 tacked onto the back end tomorrow and let you know.
Can check this simply using TiS score and see what the relative aerobic and anaerobic scores are for each of them.
I’d still like to put this theory to the test. Who can put more work out over many hours with the two approaches? I think the idea that for #1 the death slog is better than SS + Z2 riding is more of a theory than something proven. If you time matched it I’d think SS + Z2 would be superior. IE 2 hours SS + 3 hours Z2. Of course, that would be a harder session.
So at what point of reducing Z2 work would it be equal to 5 hours of only Z2. I think this would be a cool question to study!
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Yes, but you’ll have the 4 hour ride in you already - you’re not comparing to the same baseline.
I would say you got sick during SSBHV, rather than it made you very ill. It would also be interesting to see if your immune system was depressed at all. That’s common in high volume/stress training.
This is something that pros walk the line of a lot. You need to get enough volume/stress on the body to adapt, and that usually has an impact on your immune system. They usually go hand in hand.
But, you might have just gotten a bug that knocked you out. I think we’ve all met people who have gotten sick and didn’t train (obviously) and the training here being the cause is just a red herring.
I wish we could just read our blood every day! That would make a lot of these questions easier to answer!
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If you’re saying that because I’ll have the adaption of a ride from two weeks ago influencing my ride tomorrow…i’ll agree with you if we want to really split hairs. But that adaption difference is going to be very small and should only really be looked into if the results are very similiar.
Let’s not forget the inherent variance that we are working with when looking at TiS to begin with.
Yeah I’m being picky. To be honest there is likely way too much variance to be able to just compare two single workouts. Lots of outside factors (recovery, nutrition, etc) not under control. It’ll do for a start though!
…not to mention this will be n=1
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Me too. But I think the answer would have to be categorized. Basically multiple answers based on what your goal is (what adaptations are you looking for). A crit racer and a multi hour athlete are going to value adaptations differently. And I don’t believe it’s as simple as matching TSS.
Another question for you @Nate_Pearson to think about. Are you missing any gains by not having a HV block of Z2 rides before starting the SS work you are talking about?
So instead if thinking of the 2 ideas as a replacement for on another, they might work best together.
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Here’s that podcast
For what it’s worth, if you can’t do a 4-5 hour ride, then yeah, it would be more about maximizing the training stress of the 3-ish hour session.
I would like to know more about this too.
Fair point Nate - especially as I am a secondary school teacher in the UK in a school with over 1000 children (they are little virus factories) and it was February. But…the biggest problem was controlling my weight I am only 5’7" and as an ex runner don’t pack a lot of muscle (I am about the only guy at any race in the UK wearing a NOPINZ extra small skin suit!) But I can usually keep my weight at about 61kg. However 2 hour SS sessions after work (and starting them at 6pm when I got home from work) meant I struggled to get enough food in me afterwards before bed and my weight crashed down below 59kg - that is when I got ill so maybe my immune system was depleted - this year I am doing MV - plus extra volume on the easy days plus gym work for a more holistic approach ……FTP still climbing so all good 
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On days you have time and two hours of sweet spot or high tempo is on the calendar, I’d be inclined to do hard sprints every two minutes during the work intervals (ala Ebbetts). My “I’m not a coach” hunch is that will encourage more muscle recruitment and possibly more fiber cycling. 
And/or drop the rest intervals and extend the duration of intervals. And then do the hour of z2.
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I know this is something you have always posited, but all empirical evidence points to it being the case. My personal n=1 definitely points to 5 plus hour rides doing wonders for aerobic efficiency and more than that durability, vis a vis SS.
My honest opinion is to really satisfy yourself, you should re ride Leadville after a base season of 20 hour weeks and compare.
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20 hours vs 8 hours wouldn’t be a good comparison. I think if I could handle 20 hours it would always be better.
And I’m not saying 5 hour rides don’t have benefit. Of course they do.
It’s fun to talk about if there’s a combo of intensity and endurance that would take less time and have the same outcome as 5 hour Z2 rides.
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What specific outcome are you looking for? Because depending on what your after I think the answer changes and we can probably narrow things down.
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I think the point is if we could all do 5 hours Z2 on a decent surface with reasonable weather then we’d all take that over 2hrs SS. But we don’t all have the time, climate and opportunity to do that so we have to compromise. Personally in the UK if it is dry and a group is going then I’m on the road…like tomorrow - yea! - But if it is crap and all my mates are busy then 2 hrs SS fills the gap for most of the same training benefits.
Exactly what I am sayin!
Definitely eager to see how you go though, love being able to reap benefits of your experience because it mirrors us regular Joe’s a lot more than most of the stuff that’s out there.
That’s a big no from me 
. I don’t have the time for that.
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Great question, important to speak to the same thing.
Aerobic threshold increase. Classic 2.0 mmol/L crossover point for people with regular genetics (not lactate outliers like j-dawg).