Agreed, but that is independent of whether it is a true race or not. Agree with the intent IIUC, but I think the “how do you define races?” question is misleading to the real point you seem to be making.
It’s not you, it’s the topic. It’s one of several that is just not worth having in the cycling community.
For TR speak (podcasts, articles) they’re effectively saying Event when they say Race in most cases. Pretty sure they said this during a podcast way back.
You’ve made your point. I’m sorry for trying to understand a bit more so I might be able to offer some more constructive advice in the future.
I completely agree with you, if you really want to help someone that asks for training advice then a conversation is usually required. Its like when someone posts “I can’t get TR working” and then doesn’t tell us a) what isn’t working, b) if its desktop or mobile app, c) …
My 2 pence worth, sportives are more relaxed than races, sometimes only just.
All the races I have done have been in big groups at pace, sportives more strung out.
A crit/handicap/kermesse is basically an FTP test on the road
Never done a TT but probably the same as the above.
Also in the UK I think a lot of events are Sportives and not races for insurance purposes, races are more risky so have higher safety requirements too.
Its like clubs have social rides and not group rides, as a club officer told me if they call it a group ride they need insurance 
@AndyGajda wasn’t trying to shut you down, I think this is a complex topic that can’t be easily encapsulated into a few words.
Tailored advice is a topic of great interest, I’m relatively new at cycling and our Wed night group ride is (for me) a practice race when riding with the lead group. The lead group usually has at least 3 guys that podium in local road races, crits, and cyclocross. TR podcast mentions I’m in a very competitive district, and TR’s Pete Morris has raced with at least one of them.
Some of those Wed night rides I treat as C events. Some I treat as B events. Mentally I’m not ready to register with USA Cycling and formally race. So for now I’m focused on developing my skills on the practice race closest to my house (there is another great group ride / practice race on Tue night with similar course).
As a concrete example, I’m training to get back to (and hopefully exceed) this level:
I treated that ride as a B event, the IF was 0.99, and I raced it even though there was no podium (except for post-ride banter).
First conclusion:
Training priority #1 is raising FTP above 277W, to deal with the demands of such high absolute power requirements for the course (drafting offers little relief) and the pace.
Next I looked at upper power zones for the ride:
- 11% threshold
- 14% VO2max
- 23% anaerobic
Obviously those are influenced by my ftp, but otherwise didn’t offer much help in selecting a training plan.
So I played around with the TR interval search feature, and let Golden Cheetah auto-detect intervals. What I found was that during the later stages of the course, Golden Cheetah auto-detected some long efforts:
First half of ride:
- 22 minutes at 94%
- and within 22 min there was 8 minutes at 105% effort
- and within 22 min there was 7 minutes at 108% effort
Second half of ride:
- 24 minutes at 94%
- and within 24 min there was 13 minutes at 102%
- and within 24 min there was 7 minutes at 108%
Second conclusion:
Based on 20+ min intervals (and shorter 7-13 min above threshold) at high % of ftp I decided to focus on Sustained Power Build.
Next I decided to drill down a little further using TR interval search, to get a feeling for time at 120% and 150% as these are used in TR workouts. I can see 26 efforts of 30 seconds @ 120+%, and 59 efforts of 5 seconds @ 150+%. Not sure what to do with that info.
Once I get my ftp back up at end of sustained power build, I’ll probably do a rebuild something like SSB2 and followed by Short Power Build as I have an ok 5-sec sprint of 1100W.
Am I closer to your intent of asking the original question? These were not races, there was no podium. I’d call it a practice race, or “B” event. But these are race-like efforts that I do weekly starting in March, and if for nothing other than bragging rights I’d like to compete for the two sprint finishes at end of first-half, and end of second-half.
Brian
FWIW entering a Cat5 USAC crit shouldn’t be any tougher than a fast Wed night group ride with riders faster than you. There’s not really much to prepare for in terms of fitness at the low end of USAC racing. You won’t be the strongest in the bunch but not the slowest either I would wager. 250w is a fine place to start.
The difference between the race and ride will be the intent of the other riders, not you. They’re not racing. They’re training.
Most licensed “racers” are willing to smash themselves on a group ride which leads to all of the surging and speed changes. THEN they’ll still contest a sprint. Self preservation typically isn’t the goal of anyone with the fitness to easily finish in the front group. If winning town line sprints is your thing then great. Go for it. It’s a trading ride for everyone else.
At the end of the day, if you think you will ever want to enter a USAC race, just do it now. You’re not going to get much more prepared than you are now.
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completely agree. The fast Wed night ride has some folks like me that are racing it, while the Cat3/Cat2 guys with 300+ ftp are clearly training. I can see their Tue lunch rides, while we ratchet it up to 28-32mph on Wed night they are cranking it up to 35+mph when training with peers.
I’m going to register with USAC this weekend. My Domane isn’t the best bike for cornering in crits. I’m more inclined to start with some of the flatter road races.
Your Domane will be fine. Half a degree of HT steepness or a 5mm shorter chainstay will be the last thing you’ll be thinking about once you’re in a race.
Sweating bike and equipment set up is a mind game I’d recommend avoiding. Especially when you’re just getting started.
I’m more concerned about others when it comes to cornering, as I can be hit or miss. The relaxed geometry of Domane is awesome for descending, and general long rides, but a small miscalculation on tight corners at speed isn’t so fun. I’ve ended up in interesting places or bunny hopping curbs. Don’t want to be that guy, although nothing wrong going off the back I guess.
a friend that podiums cross races here gave me this advice last month (along with encouraging me to get out there and race!) – “Crits have a really bad reputation for being dangerous but it really depends on the course and the skill level of the field. In my experience, road races are no safer. In fact, my 2 crashes during races came in Cat 3 road races. Cat 3’s are the most dangerous in my opinion.”
opinions? Have heard same on the podcasts.
Yeah, crits can be sketchy. So can road races. My advice? hold your line, don’t do anything you wouldn’t do in a group ride. Hold your line.
I like to tail gun for the first part of a crit, slowly work my way up, feel out the crit, maybe go for a flyer, sit in, def try to be 5th wheel with 3 two to go. Find my teammates and get our lead out train going with hopefully two left. Cat 4/5 to me is the sketchiest. You have some 5s who have the fitness of 3s but no handling or how to race doing some really sketchy stuff. There were several crashes this past summer in my cat especially when our fields were hitting near 75. In those instances, I’ll burn a match to stay up front. Being in the middle is about the worst place to be.
More: When the fields are pushing 50, midway point I’ll be up front, not pulling, but just being sneaky and trying to stay hidden. If there is a split for whatever reason, being in the bank or middle and you’ll easily miss it.
Exactly. I even feel that way on some/most of the club rides lately.
I’m setting up my original Bontrager wheels for tubeless right now, for the sole purpose of racing on them. They roll really well, although a bit heavy. Don’t carry speed as well as my carbons, but with a good set of tires they will be fine. And yes, I agree “hold your line” is exactly what I need to do.
It’s not a matter of crashing or not, but a matter of when. If you race a lot, or a little, it’ll probably happen.
If doing well in races is your goal I wouldn’t waste too much time tail gunning or riding scared. Find a confident, more experienced rider that moves well in the peloton and follow the wheel.
There are little things you can do to be safer in the bunch but when someone hits a bottle or slams a pothole while they’re eating with their hands off, a bunch of guys are going down. And none of them did anything wrong to get in that situation.
Just look at the pro peloton. No one makes it through a season unscathed. GT winners are hitting the ground multiple times in three weeks…
Not saying you shouldn’t ride defensively but be realistic and don’t ride afraid.
Not sure if the tail gunning comment was pointed towards me - but I don’t tail gun because I’m racing defensively or scared. I tail gun because for whatever reason it takes me a bit to get my legs going even with a solid warmup. Usually after a few laps I move up and am up front for most of the race. I even get called out for it and I’m totally fine with it. I wouldn’t recommend new racers to tail gun as my advice was just what I do.
And I do just fine in crits.
Yes I recognize the risks. I’ve already crashed and broken a collar bone. And went in hot following a wheel at 26mph on a 90 degree turn narrow road, rear wheel slipped on some gravel hidden on double yellow center line and ended up in the ditch with ripped jersey and leg/arm “road rash” from the gravel lining ditch.
Nope. Not at all. I often tail gun as well if I want to warm up the legs or the mood just happens to strike me. I’ve also sat up just before a sprint because I had a bad feeling about a rider contesting it, and got to watch him promptly crash the front of the field from a safe distance. But these are choices I consciously make.
I meant that for a new racer it’s a good way to get tired, dropped and develop bad pack riding habits. And getting comfortable in the group doesn’t happen by riding alone. I learned this from experience as well.