I have been stuck on 184 FTP

Training
50

I believe there might be some confusion in this thread, partly because I may not have adequately explained my frustrations. Allow me to clarify what has been bothering me.

It all boils down to the clash between my expectations and reality. Now, I don’t want to make excuses, but my FTP is currently at 184W, with a power-to-weight ratio of 2.36 W/Kg. Admittedly, that’s not very high. I’ve noticed athletes who don’t follow structured training with much higher FTPs. And yet, despite completing 7 weeks of the Low Volume Build, I seem to be experiencing minimal progress.

I understand that it’s a low volume plan, but the expectation has always been that Low Volume suits the majority of athletes. At least, that’s the common rhetoric I’ve come across on the podcast. This situation has even led me to question the effectiveness of TrainerRoad as a platform, considering it is supposed to deliver results.

To clarify my expectations further, all I want is to be fast enough to keep up with any wheel at a local group ride and consistently hit speeds of 30km/h+ on Strava.

I’ve noticed some recurring suggestions regarding the potential problems:

Insufficient volume.

I understand the point being made here, which suggests that my lack of progress could be due to not pushing myself hard enough. I’m still undecided about the approach I should take:

  • Should I switch to the mid-volume polarized plan since it involves four days of training per week?
  • Or should I stick with the low volume and incorporate SS-based workouts, supplementing them with extended periods of Zone 2 rides?

Additionally, I’m unsure whether I should start another cycle of build or return to the base phase. I’m also considering incorporating weight training into my routine, but I haven’t figured out how to fit it in yet.

Compliance with workouts.

I realize there may be some debate on this matter, but given that I haven’t yet reached the level some of you might expect, my current plan is to increase my indoor training sessions and limit interval training during outdoor rides to shorter loops. However, I would appreciate a better understanding of this aspect and whether it’s a significant factor or not.

Other factors

  • Some discussion about Threshold workouts that I don’t fully understand
  • External factors like nutriotion / sleep
1 Like
51

I think the consensus is not that you aren’t pushing yourself “hard enough” but that you are lacking the consistency required to improve (especially on a LV plan).

I would avoid any polarized plan that is not high volume….IMO, you would be better off with a SweetSpot plan, supplemented by additional Z2 mileage.

You would be better off spending that time on the bike, not lifting. You need to build a stronger aerobic foundation first.

11 Likes
53

the simple answer is that nobody really knows why you are stuck at 184. Some have made educated guesses after looking at your recent workouts.

Cycling is an endurance sport. Generally speaking, volume drives aerobic gains in endurance sports. But the amount of volume depends on you, not me, but you. When you take volume down to 3-4 hours, it usually becomes a game of intensity… increasing the power and doing shorter intervals designed to aerobically work more muscle fibers in your legs. Now in parallel, regardless of 3-4 hours or 8-12 hours, consistency and frequency of workouts is also important. And if you are only doing 3-4 hours/week, then its doubly important. Also doubly important if you are in the use-it-or-lose-it age group.

Hope that adds some color commentary to @Power13 consensus comment above.

4 Likes
54

All of this, seconded.

SSBLV, add endurance time if you can. Weights to supplement your riding for general health more than improvement on the bike. This is the way! :100: :slightly_smiling_face:

7 Likes
55

I would actually follow a low volume plan and do all the workouts before saying TrainerRoad doesn’t work. Upping your volume to a mid volume plan isn’t the answer, if you have struggled with consistently doing 3 structured workouts a week going to five will not be a recipe for success.

You need to first nail your framework for training. Do this with low volume. Get into a habit and nail the consistency of doing three workouts a week. You will of course have to adjust expectations if you travel and get sick, seems like with what time you missed TrainerRoad kept you from losing any ftp!

5 Likes
56

Before adaptive training, SSB would end with, if I remember correctly, having you do 2x20 at 94%. If you couldn’t do that, perhaps because you fell ill during the training block, or your training was inconsistent, you had an easy way to know that your base training was insufficient, and you could keep working until you nailed that workout.

People complained that this rigid plan often fell apart because of real-life problems. So TR came up with adaptive training.

Now, adaptive training will keep trying to progress your key base workouts upwards and onwards, if it ‘thinks’ you’re ready for more. And it will knock you down a bit if you fail workouts it thinks you should have nailed. But it won’t tell you (other than by giving you a disappointing AI-FTP) that you need to go back and do some remedial work before moving on to a build block.

Can you do 2x20 at 90% and feel like that’s a productive workout, or are you stuck at 7-minute intervals that the cynical cyclists on this forum scoff at?

What happens when you try to do
Eichorn:

or Lamarck:

or Gray:

If you’re stuck at threshold PLs below 5.0 because you started out your block very low, you almost certainly need to increase your base. The anaerobic workouts (and VO2 max) that you seem to be nailing won’t make you very much stronger over 20 minute time frames. You may need more muscular endurance, and you get that by grinding out longer and longer SS/TH intervals (or perhaps by a lot of endurance volume, which you haven’t been getting).

Said another way: your anaerobic workouts don’t work on your limiter. I suspect you just need a lot more work in the sweet spot and just below threshold. If you really want that intensity, do threshold over/unders. You won’t get that in the polarized plan.

1 Like
57

I used LV plans(SS base - Sustained Power Build - Gran Fondo Specialty) till my A race in Apr. I restarted(hard reset) my training back in Feb 2022 and started with 150~160W / 58kg. At the time of my A race, I was somewhere like 205W / 61kg. My typical training hour lays about 3 to 7 hours per week. Sometimes whole week wiped away, sometimes only two workouts done in a week, but try to do more when possible

image
image1698×422 52.4 KB

Above - OP, Below - Mine
image
image1252×508 43.6 KB

Without the exception of Amstel Gold Tour(which seem to skew the meaning of 6 Wk Avg), OP’s CTL(sort of) is tend to below 200. Workouts done are sparse across the calendar. POL LV? Short of stimulus, I think… I might say “different use of LV plan” lead to OP’s suboptimal result compare to me.

I agree with opinions like…

  • I think POL LV isn’t thing. After my A race now I switched to POL HV and my weekly volume is up from 3~-7 hours/week to 8~10 hours/week. I like this POL HV plan. If OP still want to try LV plans, do typical SS base things. It provides more stimulus and good for those short of times.
  • Consistency & Volume : I want to add up with the word “density”. OP’s calendar looks too sparse. Let’s do more! I know TSS isn’t everything, but at least 200~300TSS per week across 3 to 5 workout should be done If you’re really into cycling.
58

…you can still make tremendous progress, you just have to be sufficiently motivated:

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/jappl.1973.34.1.107

FWIW, my trainees have on average increased their steady-state power by 40-60% while training <6 h/wk. Of course that’s starting from a totally untrained state, but the OP doesn’t seem to be very far off that.

5 Likes
59

Ignoring the fact that TR lazily/stubbornly uses a rolling 42 d average, that’s still not their CTL.

Regardless, your point is well taken, i.e., they aren’t training very much.

4 Likes
60

But 90% of athletes are doing extra outside riding on top of their LV plan.

You know that some group riders are putting in 6-8-10-12-20 hours per week. There are always those guys. That’s your competition.

Do the LV plans and then swap out the weekend ride for 5 hours of aerobic / group riding every weekend. Maybe fit in one extra ride mid-week. You’ll get a lot faster putting in 7-8 hours per week including two intervals sessions. There’s no magic. That is what the faster people are doing or they just ride a ton and have gotten fast over time.

1 Like
62

87.635% of statistics are made up on the spot.

9 Likes
63

How do you know that your FTP is 184? I think if it’s based on AIFTP from a small series of outdoor rides then it’s probably not in the middle of the cases where the algorithm is super accurate. Do a 20min test and see how that makes you feel and what sort of number you get.

As a relative beginner doing a small handful of poorly executed outdoor rides is not going to yield particularly good gains.

Just do SweetSpot Base and get good at sweetspot - that’s the fun speed to ride at. Learn to do intervals inside properly. Ride outdoors for fun. Don’t overthink it until you get to 300W, otherwise it’s just a load of confusing noise for you.

2 Likes
64

With the risk of sounding a bit harsh, but have you really completed 7 weeks of prescribed training? Have a look back at your calendar and see how often you’ve completed all three workouts.
All reasons for not completing workouts are valid, but then you also have to adjust your own expectations. Without doing so i think you’ll be going downward this negative spiral of disappointment for some while.

Another tip would also be to not focus so much on what others are doing and how much they are getting faster (or not). Focus on yourself and how you plan to improve yourself. The outcome will sort it self if you do the work. But if that happens to be a 10W gain or a 30W gain, that’s not fully in your control. Our bodies will all react differently.

What i am certain of is that you have a block of real compliance, you will feel better on the bike. That might come in the form of a higher FTP, but i also might be at the same FTP, but a higher TTE.

5 Likes
65

I would have to agree with a lot of comments above :slight_smile:

Being sick, a good amount of vacation time, and not adhering to the training block can cause your FTP to not change at all or have a minimal increase, like in your case.

I think a big point worth noting is that since your decrease in FTP in December, it has consistently been rising, so that’s really good!

Instead of feeling a bit defeated and potentially getting fixated on the current one watt increase, it’s important to look at the bigger picture and not let it be your barometer for how “good” you are. There are also other gains to be made through healthy eating habits, proper recovery, etc…

One of our recent podcasts talks about this at about 01:01:27 and many other things that hopefully you’ll find helpful: Panic Training, Fitness Plateaus, Pro Racing, and More – Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast 423 - YouTube

9 Likes
66

You have some great advice above, so I’ll just focus on this one issue. There is NO DEBATE, you have not been compliant. I don’t want you to fool yourself and think 80% of completed workouts is good. It is not. Not in cycling and particularly when you’re already at the very bottom of volume. Yes it’s likely better than someone off the couch, but also highly likely less than what everyone in your group ride is doing.

With only 3 workouts a week, compliance would be missing 1 workout per month at most and that’s with fully completing every other workout. Anecdotally, I train 6 days a week year around and probably only miss a few workouts a year. Not to say you need to be that dedicated, but expectations need to be adjusted accordingly.

Lastly, never go by what other say they are doing for training. It is very common in cycling to downplay one’s training, it’s kinda a flex. Nonetheless, focus on yourself as you have a lot of low hanging fruit. You easily have the potential for big gains with a bit more dedication.

6 Likes
67

not read all the comments, but low volume polarized might not be the best combination (for you).

I think (bro science…) that the average minimum volume for polarized to be succesfull is around 6-8 hours, (could be more or less depending on your level, recovery speed, other stress (sports or otherwise), etc.

In my case, low volume SS + 1 additional ride (so ~5 hours per week, 250-280TSS) has been pretty effective, but more volume combined with the amount of intensity was certainly not (Too much!!), since last, year I have been adding longer endurance rides and skipping some intensity, averaging around 8 hours per week (350-380 TSS) for some periods.

So in your case, I would say, add endurance rides (3-4+ hour rides) or if you want to keep it to ~4 hours per week, switch to a SS plan, then you will have a ss, vo2 and maybe another ss or theshold workout of 60-90 minutes per week, which will probably be the additional stress you need to improve.

(1 question to check, before adding volume or intensity, on a normal week, do you feel tired from your training, or in most cases pretty fresh? when already tired, proceed with caution, when fresh, up your training!)

1 Like
68

Being defensive over people’s recommendations and their comments means you don’t want to change, to me. You ask for help and then fight it? Sounds like you already know the answer.

You have been training for 8 months now, and want to know why you aren’t in the bike racer category? If it were only that easy, we’d all be super bike racers! I’ve been training for years and am ‘stuck’ at 227. (Although TrainerRoad says I’m actually at 233, and riding at that level kinda scares me. (I haven’t done an actual FTP test in years))

I realize if I want an FTP closer to 300, I’ll have to do more riding at the higher zones, and I’m trying, but I’m also not likely to be a bike racer and have to accept where I am. I have been doing more training to try to push my recovery at higher demand which seems to be my weakness. But I could also be at the height of what I am capable of.

When was the last time you had a through medical checkup? I was surprised with a failed stress test, and the discovery of a congenital heart defect. I wanted to be so much better than I was and was training at my ultimate maximum, and didn’t even know it.

Aside from that, the one thing that you need to think about is that during weight loss, people ‘plateau’, seemingly stuck at a weight. That tells them that they need to change up something to push over that ridge and keep moving in the right direction. Sounds like you need to change up something to push your training over that ridge too.

1 Like
69

Since nobody rose to my bait, here are the “rules” behind such improvements (in initially untrained individuals):

  1. No easy days.
  2. No rest weeks.
  3. No intervals shorter than 5 min.
  4. No crying (there is no crying in the laboratory).

Harsh? Yes. Sustainable? Not really. But, such results demonstrate how trainable the average person is, if only you apply scientific principles such as overload, specificity, etc., and avoid making things more complicated than they need to be, try to train “smart”, obsess about overtraining, etc.

8 Likes
70

Nothing to add on training side but even if your FTP is pretty static chances are the area under your power curve has improved.

Mine has only gone from just under 200w to 219w (about 10%) in the last 6 months but if I go to intervals.icu I’ve got some graphs showing my average w/kg for various times up to 90mins and the lines are all moving upwards.

image
image1626×462 61.3 KB

If I were you I’d link my data and get the times you’re interested in graphed up. Remember you are not your FTP, there’s plenty of metrics to check.

Ps TrainerRoad folks graphs like this would be brilliant to include on the free space on the career page! Improvement graphs at different intervals [Feature Request]

3 Likes
71

You are looking for double blind RCTs on a cycling forum?