I dunno, I train a lot of people who are aerobically strong and have punch too. I’d strike all that, ignore vlamax, and take another crack at it…
…because this is exactly the opposite of how the metabolic pathways operate.
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That suggests to me therefore that they’ve got the balance right for what they want to do.
Indeed, a pioneer. By the way he is an expert in just no EPO, he also administered anabolic steroids, hgh and I am pretty sure many others.
…and orange juice!
Have the lactate machine enroute! Very excited for the delivery and to see what the results show. Will post them here for perusal. Been a very entertaining, and at times confusing as f**k, thread this one. All in all, lots of learning has happened though! It’s pushed me down some rabbit holes of Kolie Moore’s podcasts (a solid 8 hours there) and also some of Attia’s podcasts, Seiler’s podcasts and some articles on lactate production and clearance. I think my eyes have now opened in relation to measuring markers in conjunction with FTP.
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Thanks for sharing! So, at 1.7mmol in recreational athletes, you see the greatest FatOx rates? With the 50/50 cross over point for CHO and FatOx being 3mmol? Is that what you see from the graphs too @sryke?
So how does the concept of a “Fatmax” with fat oxidation going to zero at higher intensities jibe with this study, which shows significant contributions from plasma FFA and IMTG even at 85% of VO2max?
Or with this study showing that there can be significant use of IMTG even during tetanic stimulation of muscle? (Can’t get any more strenuous than that.)
I think that would be for that one particular athlete. You would need your own metabolic test to know your fatmax.
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as @AJS914 has already pointed out this is one athlete. There is not one universal La concentration at Fatmax. If at all one could potentially assume that Fatmax may correlate very well with the point, where La rises the first time above baseline. But this point is individual as well. And Fatmax itself is a moving target.
I actually posted the slides for the statements on muscle fibre recruitment and their potenial disagreement with established concepts. But I don’t know if he means it as I understand it.
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I had a Metabolic Test done a few years ago and whilst it certainly wasn’t done in controlled laboratory conditions it shows that at 85% of what they took to be my VO2max I was still using substantial amounts of Fat before it started to drop of appreciably. Whether it would have gone to zero I have no idea because I’d had enough before I got there.
One thing I heard about this is If the readings were taken from a Gas analyser on the mouth, it captures fuel utilisation from the whole body.
So the working muscles of the legs may not be using fat but others are. Could explain it?
Put simply then @sryke, find your LT1 and LT2 - whatever those figures may be. Then, train at as close to your LT1 as possible or just a little bit below.
That sounds a bit more like it. Luckily my lactate analyser just rocked up to my door step! So excited. Have the protocol ready to go and have a mate lined up ready to help me do the test.
Also, I took the lancing device for a ‘test run’ before … I thought I was going to bleed out 
I couldn’t stop bleeding! Pretty sure I had the thing set on slice and dice instead of ‘take blood nicely’.
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I guess this is what ISM is suggesting. And others. I don’t know how universally valid this concept is. As you can see in the DrMF thread, he would suggest mixing in quite a lot of “Medio”. Who knows what the better concept is.
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I’ve finally figured it out @sryke. I’ve combined DrMF and ISM into once succinct and perfectly summed up conclusion.
Just ride your bike.
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That’s where I was landing too (and would add “reflect on what worked for you”).
The more I learn about training, the more I think this is true. Ride your bike, go hard sometimes, go silly long sometimes, but ride.
There are some caveats to it though - you need enough time and a high volume, and you must like to smash yourself sometimes. The problems really start when you try to get to the same level of fitness with the least amount of time possible.
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Difficult to commercialise though 
frequency, consistency, progressive overload. To accomplish this many people need structure.
“Just ride your bike” may work for many, especially when early in their “career”. And if you check the boxes on freq, consistency, progressive overload why not. However, “just ride your bike” may prevent you from working on your weaknesses. I’d say it favours a riding style that is in your comfort zone. I build mathematical models of biological systems for a living. I’ve yet to encounter a system that is not limited by its “weaknesses”.
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