Can we put the xert marketing team in another thread so that we have a chance of keeping up with whatās actually going on with AT?
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I tend to agree. I get that there is inevitable comparison between the two apps/services, but a deeper discussion on Xert (vs TR and/or others) would be better in a separate thread.
I will leave it to the relevant people to start that, since I have no experience with Xert. I can move any posts as appropriate from here into that thread, but I may just leave the above as is. Not sure right now.
But please move further discussion into an āUncategorizedā thread, like we do for other apps (like Zwift, Sufferfest, etc.)
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I am not on the beta but have been using TrainNow for the last few weeks and asked a similar question.
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I put a support ticket in, got a āthat sounds odd, weāll investigate ā kind of answer, then after tonightās workout, the levels adjusted. So I donāt know if it fixed itself or if someone gave it a nudge, but it looks better now.
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I vote move the Xert posts @mcneese.chad . I tried the āpolite requestā - and they continued. They are just noise here and contribute to the obfustication of āIntroducing ATā and working out what is going onā¦
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OK. That is easier on PC, so I will get to it later today.
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So support go back to me and apparently there were three issues at play.
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What I thought was a full on fail on an earlier session, the system thought was a struggle pass (I missed a solid 20% of each interval, so this is a surprise to me!).
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The system did take account of my most recent failure, and changed my VO2max value from 6.9 to 5.4 (possibly a bit much?), but itās not actually showing that change, apparently by design. This is strange to me, because itās showing level 6.9 VO2max sessions as achievable even though supposedly in the background it thinks Iām now a 5.4.
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The reason it didnāt change my next workout is because apparently itās not associated with my current plan. I guess I changed it when I was struggling with my VO2max workouts.
So that makes sense, but my issue with it is that if itās not showing my actual level, and wont change non plan scheduled workoutsā¦ I have no way of knowing if I should change them myself. As it is, I think Iāll schedule a 6.0 as Iād be surprised if I needed to drop as far as 5.4.
Edit - I just went back and compared my āstruggle passā session to my fail session. Interestingly, on average during the intervals my wattage was a few percent higher in my fail session, and my lowest power interval was higher too (235w vs 207w). The difference is, in my fail session I dropped the intensity. My assumption is that if I hadnāt then Iād also have been awarded a struggle pass.
From my perspective, I failed both of those sessions (I missed large parts of a number of intervals, or was significantly lower output than I should have been).
To those on beta and on a Triathlon Training Plan, have you experienced AT recommendations for RUn and Swim workouts? I thought that AT only works on Cycling workouts for nowā¦ I was surprised that there were AT Recommendations for my run and swim workoutsā¦ Unfortunately, I was in a hurry and didnāt get a SS.
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If you recently got in the Adaptive Training beta, when did you receive the email confirmation?
Please indicate time zone! Just assuming itās somewhat close to a fifo among the ones who signed up for the beta.
Excited about this!
Marked my Threshold session as āVery Hardā and got an adaptation to my midweek session (0.1 point down in difficulty). I can live with that, Iām not in a rush to bury myself like I did on todayās one again!
Oddly my end of week ones are still nothing like they were originally in the plan (and way below my capabilities), but Iāll see if it further adapts during the week.
Has anyone heard if/when AT will work with workouts that are not part of a default TR plan? Having it only work with TR plans is a pretty big limitation that I hope is only temporary. Without this even minor tweaks to a plan to customize it will ābreakā AT.
I think it kinds of needs to be within the context of a plan, since the whole purpose of it is to adjust a planās progression level to suit your progress through it. Without a plan, what is being āadaptedā by adaptive training? I imagine it would basically be TrainNow, but with a set determination of which days to do āEndurance/Climbing/Attackingā workouts. Once progression levels are visible to all users, that in combination with TrainNow would probably be the best way to progress without having an actual plan.
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No time frame on unstructured workouts other than āweāre working on itā so far. So itās definitely in the hopper (donāt quote me, but I think they had mentioned they had an internal version working), but itās not currently pushed to any of the beta users. For what it is worth, you can create custom workouts and those now are categorized by AT and apply to progression levels.
The way I believe outside workouts will be brought in is that they will affect progression levels and change future workouts based on what you did in a race or a free ride or whatever. Itās not at the point yet that if you did hard race it would prescribe a rest day for you, for example.
I agree with this, however I see a plan as being āa series of workouts on the calendar in the future that have some sort of progression in themā, as distinct from being āworkouts put on the calendar by selecting a TR planā. If AT is truly dependent on specific patterns of workouts within TR plans, then it is much more limited in capability than I had hoped it would be. All of the general capabilities that they have described lead me to think that it āshouldā be able to perform reasonably against a variety of āplansā, where a plan is nothing more than workouts scheduled in the future.
My hope is that the main missing piece here is a user interface to allow people to select what future workouts they want adapted, and which ones they donāt, rather than limitations in the underlying AI/ML framework they are using for adaption.
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I guess there are multiple parts to this. Analysing workouts (which will ultimately include indoors/outdoors and structured/unstructured) and managing a riderās progression levels within energy systems - these bits do not require a plan.
The āadaptiveā bit is where I see it as more tricky - the idea youāve raised of looking at any set of future workouts and adapting those is an interesting one! Maybe it will be able to head that way in future.
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I think that given the limited degrees of freedom the adaptation has right now I think it should be able to to fairly well in the general case. From what has been described, AT does the following things to change a workout:
- Identify what āintensity/categoryā a workout is in.
- Identify the difficult/progression of a workout.
- Adjust the difficulty of a future workout, keeping the same duration and same category based on the athletes current progression level.
None of these things should be affected by whether the workout was put on the calendar by a TR plan or I put a series of TR workouts on the calendar by hand. AT wonāt fix a āplanā that doesnāt have a reasonable progression, but for self-made plans with a reasonable progression I think AT should be able to be used on them.
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I tried Xert EBC and it wouldnāt connect with my indoor trainer. I tried stuff with support but had no luck so Iāve left the platform now.
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What Iām confused with most is why TR is choosing not to display my actual levels. Iāve definitely had two levels modified downward by the adaptive training now (Threshold and VO2max), but itās still choosing to display what it allocated for me when I turned on adaptive training.
I assume the intent is not to discourage people with big drops, but by the same token it would be nice if I could find them somewhere (even if the main screen displayed the old values).
Edit - I donāt know if it eventually shows minuses for failed workouts either, but right now sessions Iāve failed just show as level +0.0 rather than whatever modification is going on in the background.
Yeah visibility of what my levels were before and after workouts would be a very nice feature that currently isnāt in there. Iāve mentioned that before in the thread. Even if it were just hashmarks, they could pretty elegantly indicate the immediate previous level as well as seasonās best level. Ultimately, Iād like a similar chart to the personal records one to see progression levels with season match.
I do also get that the screens are already quite data-rich and adding more complexity isnāt great from a UI/UX perspective. But Iād argue there is a way to make it work.
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I have a spredsheet with the daily levels so I can keep track of the changes TR makes.
Today I did a threshold 3,4 workout. Before the workout I was threshold level 2,4. I was in trouble halfways and turned down from 100% to 85% for the second half.
I scored with ātoo intenseā and after this my level turned down to 1,9. I think 1,9 is too low but I will go from there and choose the next threshold workout at no higher than 2,4
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