I’ve had the opposite experience with 6850 and 8050 Di2 vs etap.
Fairly certain etap was proven to be slower hence the “mostly” comment. It does feel slower to me in comparison to Di2 but not enough to make me worry.
Both are good, just different experiences for us.
How come no one has mentioned how awesome it is to add wireless connectivity with the di2? Being able to customize the buttons on the hoods with garmin functions have been awesome especially now that trainerroad can be done outside. No more need to take my hands off the handlebars to molest my garmin for some data, start a lap/interval, or to light it up at night so I can see the screen. Also, with the app you can see a very good approximation of battery levels. Get the di2 with the wireless unit and you’re one step closer to being a cyborg with 2 wheels.
Electronic shifting was made to order for us old guys. I’m a 66 year old rider who has put about 4K miles on the bike for about a decade and half - all on mechanical gruppos - first Campy and then Shimano. Shifting gears maybe 100K times year (or more?) has earned me a chingado case of persistent tendinitis in my right thumb and now I’m working on my right wrist. Never had enough $$ to do anything about it. But now, as soon as I finish paying for Thing 2’s college, . . .
FWIW (not Descartes):
Q: What makes you think you can think?
A: The answer is intuitively obvious.
Di2… worth it?
Compared to Shimano mechanical - yes.
Compared to Campy mechanical - no.
Actual shifting actuation on Campy mechanical requires far less finger/wrist movement than Shimano mechanical, and hitting gears is actually far faster on Campy mechanical than Shimano Di2.
Not needing to worry about indexing gears is quite nice!
Di2 has a couple of useful advantages: Programming the buttons to operate gears (and Wahoo/Garmin computer) as you wish, as well as placing sprint/climbing shifters on the handle bars. Also with disc brakes, the hoods are significantly slimmer and better hold with the Di2 rather than the mechanical alternatives.
I have two bikes, one with Dura Ace DI2 and one with Dura Ace Mechanical, I ride them both all the time.
To be honest I find DI2 a bit overhyped…the advantages of DI2 are all true but for me only nice to haves. I realise, everyone is different but I personally prefer the engagement and feel of mechanical shifting…just feels right, I can feather it or slam it. I can shift as quick, I can use any chainring/sprocket combo I want, I feel in control. In addition I can leave my bike untouched and not have to worry about yet another battery, I can fix it myself, DA mechanical is so good, it’s set and forget and just needs a new cable once in a while but less often than I change the chain. I’ve never lost a race because I didn’t have DI2.
So given the massive price difference I would say it’s not worth it or at least you should be buying PM, wheels, aero kit, frames etc before DI2. But clearly I am in the minority, though!
it has reduced my time to maintain cables and housing (I ride a lot) and the quality improvement in shifting is just incredible. I think once you go to di2 it would be hard to go back!
Good podcast today about electronic drivetrain gremlins. Apparently those in the industry prefer mechanical…and metal bikes…
Never forget about the sram incident 
The discussion actually doesn’t start until 25mins into the podcast.
I think if you take their argument about the simplicity of mechanical to the extreme, then they would be riding fixies only. They mentioned being stuck by the failure of electronic 40 miles (?) into a ride. What about a shifter cable break? Perhaps rare, but still possible.
There are certainly good reasons for amateur riders (i.e. without team mechanics and support) to stay mechanical today - simplicity of repair, cost of electronic, and reliability. But speed of shifting is not one of them. [You will note in the interview the mention of Peter Sagan using mechanicals in the Paris Roubaix probably due to the small Di2 shifting buttons - not an issue with SRAM and probably something Shimano will fix in the next generation]. But you did not hear (or at least I didn’t) that Sagan and his team has chosen mechanical for all training and racing.
I think what the podcast mentioned of importance is the analogy to the auto industry. We are still relatively early into electronic systems for bikes so there is lots of room for improvement, just as the auto industry went through. But the speed and precision differential between electronic and mechanical is real. So its just a matter of time before pricing/cost come down, reliability goes up and e-shifting becomes mainstream. And where each of us sits on the technology adoption curve is based on the classical personal cost-risk/reward tradeoffs.
Roadies are ridiculously conservative sometimes. Coming from the MTB side, e. g. the debate about disc vs. rim brakes, tire width or aero vs. non-aero seems really weird when the advantages are so obvious. If money is no object, I think there are very few circumstances where I think mechanical shifting is better overall.
The only reason why we aren’t there yet is price, or rather, the price differential. Nowadays the premium for electronic shifting is way too large for most people. Or, put differently, I think you get a better overall package if you invest that price differential elsewhere (such as better wheels). But if prices come down that obviously changes.
Well, we are all living at the higher end of the market. Even my comparatively cheap bikes (€2k-3k range) are really expensive for people who are not into cycling. So honestly, the biggest improvement will be price: if SRAM and Shimano can offer Rival-/105-level electronic shifting for the same price as mechanical shifting, then we are in business.
Plus, it seems clear to me that the future is wireless. Yes, Shimano’s Di2 groupsets shift a teeny bit faster, but I don’t think this will make a practical difference. What will, though, is the lack of cabling, which simplifies frame design and assembly.
Yep! My eldest daughter, a total non-cyclist, literally bought a “disposable” bike on Amazon for US$98 ! 3x7 mechanical shifting included (and yes, it included wheels 
).
I’d guess that SRAM is struggling to make e-Tap Force profitable even for Venge Pro bikes. Rival/105 e-shifting will happen, but lots more volume needed to drive costs down (reliability improvements will come simultaneously).
Yes, particularly for upgrades. I forget where I read it, but someone was saying that their AXS upgrade time was [I think] under an hour; citing how ridiculously easy it was compared to Di2 (wired systems) he had done previously.
Well that’s not really fair because that’s not the argument being made. This is a straw man fallacy.
Such a break is most likely caused by poor maintenance whereas with an electronic drivetrain it’s more of a ¯_(ツ)_/¯ . Also, at least with a cable break you may have a chance to fiddle with the screws and cables to set it to a position where you can hobble home. If an electronic goes haywire, how far are you willing to go to force the expensive derailleurs/motors?
One thing they mention about the auto industry is that they can just plug in an OBD2 scanner and check what the problem is and they mentioned there’s no way to do that with an electronic drivetrain…but there is! I have it on my di2 with e-tube. I can diagnose faults with the shimano e tube app. Not that it may do much in the field but it’s better than nothing.
I can say this, for my high end road bike, I run ultegra di2 disc. For my travel/crit bike, I have ultegra mech disc. I do share the same feeling with James in the podcast, that I know I can rely on mech and I know I am not completely SOL with a drivetrain mechanical in the field. This is a low probability high consequence event and it’s really up to each person to decide what their risk tolerances are.
Yes, but the question is “when?” Right now at the top level Shimano offers both, mechanical and electronic shifting. Perhaps due to the hefty price differential, SRAM will still make a mechanical Force groupset, but I feel this will go away. And perhaps SRAM will not make a 12-speed mechanical Red groupset and instead steer people to electronic shifting.
I understand that some aspects of electronic shifting will be more expensive. On the other hand, electronics get cheaper and cheaper. I own see.sense lights that connect to my iPhone (and to Garmin head units), and these were not appreciably more expensive than comparable “dumb” lights. Their front light costs as much as my “dumb” front light. I don’t see why these advances shouldn’t eventually translate to groupsets. Of course, you have motors to worry about, so this won’t be as cheap or as simple as a light, but the prices should nevertheless drop year-over-year.
I don’t see how electronic shifting can ever be made as cheap as mechanical shifting. From a pure parts count it is the same thing as the mechanical but with extra electronic bits added on. So in addition to the costs for those extra bits there will have to be extra costs for assembly and test and perhaps most critically there will have to be extra overhead costs to cover additional warranty risks. Unless there is a fundamental shift in the concept of the drive train an electronic system will always cost more.
I have now done Paris-Brest-Paris 4 times. Once with mechanical STI, twice on fixed, and once with di2.
I’ll leave you to guess which one caused me most trouble.
It doesn’t have to get Tiagra cheap, but if it gets Ultegra-level cheap, this will be a game changer for serious cyclists. Look at power meters and how inexpensive they have become.
Even now you have the option to decide between SRAM Force eTap and Red mechanical (or Ultegra Di2 and DuraAce mechanical). I know what I’d get.
I’m probably the poster child for electronic shifting: I had Mavic Mektronic back in the day, and loved it (when it worked 
). Today my trainer bike has eTap, my road bike is Di2 Ultegra + sprint shifters as climbing shifters, and my gravel bike is also Di2 Ultegra.
What I love about electronic shifting:
Interesting you bring up conservative roadies versus MTBers. I haven’t seen any interest at all in electronic shifting amongst my MTBing friends. No-one is even considering it. On that side we’d all rather spend our money on better suspension. I don’t think I’ve even seen a di2 MTB at a race in my area.