Here is a great example of why we need Hate Crimes…I mean, we already have laws against defacing public or private property, right?
On a side note, I’d encourgae people to follow Auschwitz Memorial. It is a really tough follow, as they daily feature victims of the Holocaust…but remembering them as individuals is essential.
Unfortunately, no. Not even close.
Equal application, stricter penalties, and wide spread dissemination of the same. Personally, I hate mandatory minimums. But this would be a context in which harsh mandatory minimums could equalize the law in application, not just in theory. At the end of the day however failure of hate crime legislation is often the result of charging decisions made by DA’s. There are a multitude of reasons why that is and, no, I’m not attributing that entirely to the “old boy’s club” mentality or subconscious racial bias.
Hmmm, interesting argument. Perhaps in some instances this is true. But overall I would disagree, though I’m certainly open to hearing you out on your argument for this.
Fair enough. But that is actually the goal of hate crime legislation. It may not seem so at first glance. But looking at the history of civil rights and inequality faced by those hate crime laws are designed to protect shows that the anticipated effect is accomplishing overall equality. In order to be a “protected class” there must be a history of oppression and disenfranchisement. Because of this history, hate crime laws target (in theory) those who would seek to perpetuate oppression through violent action. This deterrent is thus designed to lift, at least somewhat, that oppression and equalize minorities within a broader concept of the law and society. As you mentioned, these laws have good intentions. Whether they have been successful is debatable, but again disparate application has definitely limited how successful the laws are.
Yup.
Taking voting rights away, in many cases effectively for life always struck me as extremely anti-democratic. We should be very careful that we don’t celebrate anti-democratic measures like no-fly lists that you have no legal recourse to get off of or so when it affects people we don’t like.
Hey that’s my Senator and I can’t wait to vote for him again! MAGA!
You are right about the ideal, but we have to recognize when reality is not congruent with our ideals. According to my ideals, race is an artificial construct that should not matter. But if I just pretend to be blind to race, I will easily miss that in reality there is a distinction made between races in all sorts of ways (even if you account for other factors such as income and education), be it the obvious ones or perhaps less obvious ones such as infant mortality.
As someone who is from a country (Germany) with strong hate crime laws and having lived in countries without hate crime laws (the US and Japan), that’s not my experience. Hate crime laws have successfully pushed ubiquitous nazi propaganda to the political fringe. In detail I have problems with how some laws are applied, but that’s a more nuanced discussion.
America’s position on free speech is quite singular amongst most democracies. To my knowledge most have laws against free speech.
I think our actions should be informed and driven by evidence and not ideology.
Saying that the BLM protests are largely peaceful is a complete lie. Many more stories just like these. The hypocrisy in all of this thick. There are good and bad folks on both sides of the political spectrum and trying the demonize someone to shut them up is wrong and proves that your argument is weak.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/police-officer-shot-during-louisville-protest-over-lack-of-direct-charges-in-breonna-taylors-killing/&ved=2ahUKEwjv3YTw_JLuAhWDJ80KHTC_DW0QFjANegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw2qHUs1FLPsExzcKsJ1UMWF&cshid=1610337374676
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://fox11online.com/on-fox-11/gallery/pofficers-shot-at-protest-in-dallas-reports&ved=2ahUKEwjv3YTw_JLuAhWDJ80KHTC_DW0QFjAFegQIDxAB&usg=AOvVaw2sZwmoMMDo-JoKQXx8ysNn&cshid=1610337374676
Plenty of places to talk politics but I didn’t join TR for that reason.
The TR forum is FREE.
You get what you pay for. 
BLM, Antifa was largely peaceful and so was the 75 million that voted for Trump. Violence is not acceptable no matter what group you belong to.
Thanks for the warm welcome, hope your training is going well.
Might I suggest not participating in this one thread then?
Relevant NPR podcast https://www.npr.org/2019/08/14/751126384/mass-incarceration
“The United States imprisons more people than any other country in the world, and a disproportionate number of those prisoners are Black.”
brilliantly rebuffed, well done and thanks
This is another false equivalency…you can’t compare a small subsection of one side to another whole side and say their actions are equal on a similar scale. The point was that the Trump Insurrection was explicitly designed to be violent and overturn a fairly-held election. The goal of BLM was equal justice for everyone. That is why your point does not hold up, not because of numbers.
(BTW, it is 74.2M that voted for Trump, not 75M…and 81.2M voted for Biden. So…really not certain why everyone keeps trotting out Trump’s vote total as if it matters. He lost…resoundingly.)
Ive been wondering the same thing,
The Right keep saying “Government cant ignore the 75M who voted for Trump”.
And I am here like… “What about the 81M who voted for Biden? Are you gonna ignore them?”
Exactly, Joel…4 years ago, the cries from the Right was “Elections have consequences” and “F*ck your feelings”…but now we are supposed to take into account those that voted for Trump? weird how that narrative switches when you lose…
Similarly, GOP leaders are desperately trying to appeal to “unity and healing” before Trump gets impeached again…but they have spent 4 years fueling hatred and divisiveness. Seems like they had the opportunity to promote unity and healing, but chose not to. So why should I listen to them now that they have lost?
The hypocrisy is galling…
On less horrible news…
Yes it is.
Are you trying to tell me people were upset with this guy?
HA!
Hate crime laws can be applied to anyone depending on the reason behind the crime. A white person who kills a black person isn’t automatically given a hate crime enhancement if the reason was something other than “they were black”. On the flip side, a black person can be charged with a hate crime if they attack a white person if the reason was “they were white”. I’m not sure its so different than charging someone with 1st degree murder vs 2nd degree murder. It’s all about the intention and rationale but the hate crime laws are designed to protect those groups that have a long history of being attacked or killed just because of what group they were born into.
I don’t know enough about their actual use to say how consistently they are applied in practice but in theory the law should be able to be applied to anyone whose motive fits the parameters.