I’ve been saying that for years but unfortunately most people don’t want to hear it.
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Same for me regarding the SSBLV 1, which was done in the last 2 years at threshold instead of SS because of an overestimated FTP in ramp test. It lead to some nice early season gains where I crush the group ride in february-march, but mid of april (mid of build) I am completely crushed and my FTP tend to decrease or at best stagnate at that point, where it should increase as per definition of build phase.
With correct FTP setting SS workouts of SSB LV1 are feeling indeed very easy, except when you go past 20mn intervals, and I recover very fast from it (wait… isn’t it the definition of SS ? Which is repeated at the beginning of every SS workout by coach Chad? Completely stupid from me to think it would get easier with time and that fatigue would at one point disappear).
But if this seemingly easy base allows me to complete a full build next year I will take it. I am also curious to see if finally I will get past the plateau I am facing.
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Not so much to add here, but totally same for me. With FTP value from ramp test(from hindsight it was so overestimated), I managed to go through LV plans and see some FTP gains, but not so long after few month FTP stagnated, I crushed(chronically fatigued all the time) and stopped training during second week of GB LV(only four training accomplished).
Learning from Moore’s test protocol, now I can train, live a life and see gradual FTP increase. Now my training seems sustainable. FTP estimation with KM and TR providing me proper plans. No more headaches but just follow plans.
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I still believe these are good progressions for generic stock plans. I bought Tim Cusick’s stock plan and the longest interval was 20 minutes.
edit: got that wrong the longest is 22 minutes:
After buying the Cusick plan it was a bit of mind blown moment to see the longest interval being 22 minutes. After all that talk of extending duration. BTW that week has 3 SS sessions and a total of 133 minutes SS and 335 minutes endurance+activeRecovery.
Back to TR… Did an exercise on progressions in TR SSB plans a couple of years ago, here it is for TR SSB1 MV:
As Coach Chad has discussed on the podcast multiple times, you can easily challenge yourself and do the work without the rest intervals.
Not an issue I’m just curious - for the minimum durations do you have a link to share showing them to be from Coggan? I’ve only seen them coming from Hunter Allen. Its like Tim Cusick’s progression slides but with Tim he doesn’t conflate it with Coggan training levels.
This is part of the reason I’m out of TR and just doing custom stuff in Zwift…
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By the time you modify all the things that matter to you, the plan doesn’t look like anything that was the output of Plan Builder.
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Shouldn’t the threshold efforts be as long as possible to be useful for actual riding?
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In my current workouts, my threshold efforts are at least 25 minutes up to 1 hour. You do get more downtime when you finish as you have to come down the hill.
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The most complicated part of setting your own plan is the vo2max efforts.
Cheers!
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This is the easiest part - TiZ around 20 min, so 4x5, 5x4,6x3.5,7x3. Start really hard and hold for your dear life, fight between urge of dying and your body that wants you to be alive, repeat. Review power after.
And then do this for two weeks 3x in the row of 1 week 5 in the row and forget for some time;)
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Coach Chad has some very good progressions in TR plans. My biggest challenges were:
- designing more aerobic endurance into the plan
- designing resistance training and core stability work into the plan
I’m still a subscriber and supporter of TR, but I decided to go coached athlete route after doing a stock plan with more aerobic endurance (along with resistance training + core stability) built into the plan. Honestly the best decision I’ve made since buying a road bike December 2015. Just too many training variables to juggle along with a full-time job, family, and house.
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Progressions are good but intervals are too short and recovery too long. They work awesome if you start with training but next year doing 8x6 min SST or something similar seems more like a joke if you are diesel type.
But there is always workout creator that solves all the problems and I hope they will finish web version.
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having just finished 3 months of resistance training and reduced riding (due to smoke from forest fires), I can tell you that yesterdays 2x15 was NOT a joke LOL. Longer work will come in due time. I’m currently a fan of doing standard intervals like 2x20 during the week, and saving the long tempo and SS intervals for Saturday’s big ride.
What?
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Of course it is very highly individual. On the other hand I have recently done 1x90@90% and honestly it was just another day in the office (and I was quite surprised). But I need at least 80 min TiZ to call it proper SST workout. And WKO agrees 
I am currently experimenting with little bit higher volume of Z2 and Tempo but doing only 2 harder workours - one SST with at least 80 min TiZ and 1 O/U with 60 min TiZ and honestly I am pleasantly surprised how I feel and how the workouts feel. Recently @Captain_Doughnutman was flying after polarized and I have the similar experience - HR is low, legs are clearing very fast, muscles are tired but body is fresh.
You block VO2 max workouts into VO2 max block. For example:
Week1: M:5x4 T:4x5 W:6x3.5
Week2: 5x4 T:4x5 W:6x3.5
Or you can do 5 days of VO2 max and then, one vo2 max for the week and rest is Z2. To maximise adaptations from Vo2 max. And then you can forget about Vo2 max for longer time and do other workouts.
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and age certainly plays a role, I’m definitely feeling the need for more recovery as I progress thru my 5th decade walking the earth
Also agree. I am close to 4th decade. And that is why TR would never have the plans that would fit everybody… at least till they include some AI and something like iLevels that would calculate the intervals and then something like HumanGo from Alan Couzens that manages recovery
Personally I think one problem is that TR doesn’t have anything close to a closed loop. Except with employees. Another reason why I think working with a coach can be quite useful.
Working with the coach is probably the way to go… but (my example) it is very hard to justify the cost (high for a really good coach) when I do not race … and I do not race, because I do not think my fitness is good enough to be something other than cannon fodder (I my country there are no categories so you race with ex-pros if your ftp is 360W or 150W) and to improve my fitness probably the best solution would be to hire a good coach - and the snake is eating it’s own tale 
I’m just trying to solve the resistance+cycling programming puzzle, our Wed night ride has some heavy 320-360W FTP hitters and one of them is a year younger! I was able to hang on for good portions when my FTP was above 260. To be honest I don’t care about racing except for hanging with the lead group on Wed night worlds.
In Hunter Allen’s own words:
It is absolutely critical when using the principles of training with power that you adhere to both the time and intensity components of Dr. Coggan’s Power Training Levels in order to train effectively.
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if you parse that like a lawyer, it doesn’t mean Coggan prescribes duration. Reads like halo marketing to my (former vp mktg & current sales nerd) eyes 
In fact Coggan is always quick to point out the training levels are descriptive not prescriptive, just further reinforcing (in my mind) that the prescriptive durations are from Allen.
My lawyer’s name is Occam.
I’ve got a TTE test this weekend. Have a feeling it’s going to be horrendous — I say 35min @ 280w. I’ll report back.
2021 starts Monday!
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