Seriously, promises are nice, but this is a business thing and eventually the business needs to move on. So the business should present a price modell and offer it to the customers. The customer says yes or no.
Promises? Sorry, I think this is really nothing to rely on in terms of any kind of big decision or path to go in business, politics, society…
privately this is a different story - but in such a business relationship like us&TR I would not feel offended if TR clearly states that it is time to move on and take the structure to a different level.
I used to be on 99$ but cancelled due to health issues not allowing me to continue at such intensity… would I be prepared to pay much more than 99? probably not, but this is just me.
Then again: how many of us are spending senseless amounts for senseless cycling equipment, clothing, stuff we barely or never use… how much is that compared to the price of any kind of training software/platform we are using 3-6 times a week?
The whole reason that Nate’s going off the cuff on the podcast about pricing was so crazy is that a 700+ post and growing thread on the forum was 100% PREDICTABLE! I dare say if someone had opened a betting line in the first dozen posts the over/under would have been at least 850ish.
Nate may be a little crazy but he needs to learn that his forum posting customers and former customers are bat shit crazy Don’t feed the beast!
Right on target. Anecdotal info can help structure hypotheses but really don’t reflect good good research on those hypotheses. Throwing out an idea in a podcast with a request for comments gets you what’s here. How Nate and Co use what’s here is their choice.
Personally, I couldn’t tell you right now under what conditions I’d remain a subscriber or would non-renew. I have my own reactions to whether a promise was made/broken and will assess how that influences my action when something concrete is put in front of me to act on. And I’ve given some thoughts earlier on this thread on what I’d like to see for product from TR.
You are also correct. There was never a contract that a single legacy subscriber signed. Just words. It’s up to each of us to decide what those words mean to us since there is no contract to peruse. To me, it means continuous upgrades as long as I continue subscribing because that has been the deal to this point.
And please, stop acting like those of us who subscribed and have continuously paid for years are the only ones benefitting from this arrangement.
We received a good long term deal. Nate and co has received a steady income flow from many subscribers that otherwise likely would have just signed up seasonally.
My plan renews in the spring, and I tend to drift away from rigidly structured training that time of year. So given that, I’d consider if it was worth my time to start exploring for alternatives, cancel and worry about it in the fall, etc. My gut says that if the rate went up to, say, more than zwift, and I had to renew at that rate in Apirl/May, I’d probably dump it for the spring/summer and worry about it all in the fall.
And most paid upfront every year at specific times. Clearly a stable source of income. Time value of money and all that as well; money in hand today is worth more than money at a later date.
To wit. I am a lifetime gold member of a calorie tracking app; cronometer. I paid a large sum up front in its early days to have gold access forever. The business went subscription and now the gold membership is worth a lot on a yearly basis. They transitioned to a subscription model when the started to scale. Instead of booting me to a yearly subscription or limiting my features, they have honored the gold membership promise. This has been after many many years later and counting.
Another app where I paid upfront, Ulyssess, which said they’d have gold access forever if you paid upfront, went back on that promise a few months after taking my money and rolled me over into a yearly subscription. I ended my subscription and have been able to convince many people to not deal with the program because they do not honor their promises.
Look, fundamentally, a promise was made. Trust has been built and formed. A breach of that trust means I wouldn’t be able to trust the company in the future. I wouldn’t trust someone who went back on their word for similar reasons. It is simple.
I would suggest that if they really want to develop additional new things that expand beyond what the app had originally intended…they go get external funding, develop new business lines (i.e. streaming a live workout / q.a. session over twitch) or monetize existing free services (i.e. podcast) for increased cashflow, or even undertake the development of a tri-focused separate app as many of the ambitious project ideas fall under that. There are options outside of hosing subscribers who have supported the company for many many years by going back on a promise made in the early days.
I think there is a vast difference between a few months and the legnth most Legacy customers had their subscriptions. This can be seen as both a positive and negative.
And I think there were assumptions made on all parties about what composed that promise…please see Nate’s post above.
Oh, if you want to see things change quickly, just wait and see what happens if they get outside investments.
You are renting a bike for $3K a year. For that price you get complete support to keep the bike working, tuned, all equipment safe and functional and ready to ride at a moment’s notice. For the last 11ish years, every so often, when you go jump on the bike you notice they’ve upgraded it. In fact, it’s not even the same bike any more it’s been upgraded so often. The frame, wheels and components have all been replaced with new stuff over the years. This is a pretty good deal and you sense that there is an implicit promise from the company that they will continue to do this indefinitely for $3K per year.
Now you’re being told, if you keep paying $3K per year, it will continue to be maintained for you, new tires, new pads, wheels trued etc. It’ll be safe and functional in its current form.
But, if you want it to be upgraded to 13 speed next year, or ABS the year after that (don’t laugh, you know it’s coming) you’ll need to pay $5K per year going forward. As a matter of fact, it might continue to increase depending on market conditions.
I don’t think I’m opposed to seeing my rate go up with time. I think the legacy pricing program could be transformed into a guarantee to have fixed pricing for N years, and then to change with the market. I’d probably leave pricing alone for customers who have been continuous subscribers for the first 1-3 years.
well… i may have jumped the gun too early assuming that they will do what they vented about doing on the podcast so, ok… lets chill, wait and see
If i had to re-write my post i would summarize to two key points: 1 - They can’t have my money both ways. 2 - I’m not an investor on TR, i’m an user of TR. That completely changes the perspective on how you’ll see these price increases and the way they are justifying it to us.
I haven’t read all 731 posts, but a quick question. Isn’t every one grand fathered in. If prices were to go up, wouldn’t those who are at the old $189 become grand fathered following @Nate_Pearson promise?
Don’t feed the beast!