I like this idea.
I dont always run at MAF, but i try to keep all my “base runs” at MAF level ( ~145 for me)
about 4 or 5 years ago, I changed my strategy… it took me a few months, but eventually was able to lower my HR. I used to do most of my run about 160ish HR. Eventually I was able to run about high 7s (mpm) at 145. That was when i was just running (75 miles per week) and living up in VA, where the weather is arguably better. At first i could only do 9 to 10 mpm at 145. It was very frustating.
Yeah, there’s lots of opportunity for confusion/questions when it comes to following the prescribed formula or adjusting as necessary and where that adjustment should lie without actual psychological testing. Then there’s someone like Lucho that’s used the same MAF HR for like 20 years. 
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Where can I listen to them? I’m currently doing a lot of Z1 running to avoid injury. My MAF is 137 but my Z1 goes to 152.
The Endurance Planet podcasts quite often cover this sort of thing - well worth a listen
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I was looking at this Allen Couzen’s article and there is a chart I thought appropriate for this topic.
I think ideally we’d all get a Fat Max test in a lab and then train right in the middle of our fat burning zone. But since that isn’t easy for most of us to do, it’s ok to train slower. You don’t have to be right at LT1 HR all the time. You get the same adaptation below LT1 with a lot less stress if you are putting out high wattage at LT1.
https://www.alancouzens.com/blog/endurance_physiology_101.html
You can see that if this athlete were to train at the high end of their aerobic zone (~70% of their VO2max), they would be performing most of their training outside of the safety umbrella of their maximal fat oxidation range. The problem with this is that due to the finite nature of carbohydrate stores, the amount of training that the athlete will be able to accumulate within a week will be compromised and the their white meat won’t become as dark as it could have if they had have adopted a more moderate approach.
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or faster.
Same here… actually trying to stay under 120.
So this is more like maf to the extreme as that’s still about 20 beats below my maf hr, but I’m thinking that 140 ish should be tempo based on my lactate measurements.
I’ve committed to low hr training on the bike and the results have been pretty good. My “ftp” isnt that great compared to previous seasons, but I’m thinking that was a vanity number since im now trying to do some hour tests to calibrate my ramp results. When i was still fairly consistent in june, i was able to do 25 minute sets at 90% below 140 hr, but it did jump up to normal 155-160 when i did 2x20 at threshold. My max is between 171-175.
Most indoor rides im around 100-110 bpm at .63 to .68 IF. I’d love to get my running to that point, as right now it just seems really easy to jump back in to the swing of things after a few weeks of low consistency.
Right now it means im running around 9-10 minute miles, but metabolically speaking that is right around the same energy expenditure at my 170-180 watts at 100 bpm. Running will always have higher hr, but if those Norwegian guys are running 7-8 minute miles but race a 10 at sub 5 mm I’m realizing my training easy pace and race pace were too close.
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That zone seems to be where the Norwegian triathlon guys spend most of their time. Still way below lt1, at their peak percentage of fat oxidation, which is below fatmax.
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Has anyone noticed their HR values changing with elevation. We moved last summer from 4000 feet to 900 feet. Since then I’ve seen new HRmax values by 4-5 beats. I’ve added 5 beats on to my threshold heart rate.
I’m not sure yet how this affects MAF / zone 2 HR.
For me it was the other way around when I went from ~5000 feet to ~sea level: resting heart rate, as well as heart rate for a given power/RPE both went down.
So there’s a dude called Richard Diaz… he likes the MAF method a lot and he coaches traithlon and also trains mainly runners (a big focus on OCR athletes for a while there, training some of the best on their running form). But before OCR was big he had a bigger focus on run training for distance.
He does use MAF to calculate most of the base stuff, but he spends a lot of time on run technique. His book is called my best race… he has plans for different distances and what not! I plan on looking at that possibly. According to the calculations id have to look at about 145bpm for my Aerobic threshold… which is low…and MAF calculation would remove a few BPM due to my old injury.
It’s gonna be hard to follow but i might give it a try, wanna lower my risks of injury.
I’m going to wake this thread back up. After a very long journey through covid, high blood pressure issues (inability to walk 100 yards outside) and obesity I’m working my way back following my own way of doing this as I posted early on in this thread. 30 pounds gone, 25 to go and FTP is back to my old off the couch 162. I’m 5 years older now in my mid-fifties and the MAF to rebuild is still out shining other things I’ve done. Especially now that 50 is in the rear view mirror.
I notice that the old Traditional Base plans have been contaminated with Higher intensity workout. So I had to rebuild a traditional take on them from my ride histories.
What I’m learning is that my plan with the adaptive training + AI Ftp prediction is producing a a great athlete experience. I have been more devote to not violating the plan than every before and as you we expect the results are best.
I could just use this for my own needs, but I’m curious if I take the time document this in an easy to use spreadsheet would others here want a 5-6 Month training program that goes MAF-Base to Polarized to Build followed by Specialization and then repeat?
Also if someone else has done it already point my nose at it please.
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A couple of years back I essentially did a MAF / Polarized base for 12 weeks. I ramped up volume from 6 hours to 13 hours by the end of period. By week 7 I was breaking all my PRs. I got no more PRs though from weeks 9 through 13.
I was doing only 125bpm riding except for Saturday when I still did a group ride.
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I would be interested in this
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Ok we have five riders working on these workouts. That should give some graphs and plans. We are playing with seasonal polarizations.
1-by and 2-by V02MAX + 3 by and 4by Endurance
1-by and 2-by Threhold + 3 by and 4by Endurance
1 Vo2Max, 1 Threhold + 3 by and 4by Endurance
Screen shots to let other’s try it out combine in a week or so, needs some more testing.