The precise height is largely irrelevant. I just listed what I see as an easy distance to think about and measure. I think that any increase is better than pure level, and people should experiment and select what works best for them.
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Understood. I like the reasoning behind the idea.
Also, after raising the front slightly today (~1.5°), the seat (an ISM) felt more like it does on outdoor rides, with me feeling correctly planted on it sit bone-wise.
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I’ve tried raising the wheel a bit, no change. At least for me it is not easy to take micro breaks on the trainer, versus riding outside, and along with the rigid position of the bike on Kickr those appear to be the biggest differences between indoor and outdoor.
A few years ago when I started riding a road bike, I developed ulnar nerve pain from putting too much pressure on my hands. As a result, I’ve become very aware of my upper body while riding both indoor and outside. I don’t perceive any real difference in body position due to wind, but everyone is different.
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For clarity, my take on this topic is not about position exactly.
It is about weight distribution between the hands and saddle, as the contact points. When you ride outside, you get a pressure pushing the upper body back. I contend that the push in this case leads to a slight shifting of force, off the hands and on to the saddle.
Inside, we lack that force, and I predict that we end up with a bit more force on our hands than when we get the push from the air flow.
I have tried to come up with a way to accurately test and measure this. Essentially, a wind tunnel and force or pressure measurement under the saddle and hands would be ideal. Test with no wind load. Then apply wind load and see if there is a shift.
I don’t have sensitive enough equipment to test in the wild, so I just have my theory for now. Maybe I need to send this to Specialized as an idea for the WinTunnel testing?
Hear ya, and I contend its negligible at least for this clydesdale. When I read that it reminds me of hearing guys that weigh $1.50 say they are getting blown around in a 20mph crosswind… did they not see everyone else getting blown around?
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Bit more feedback on this…
Raised the front axle a bit further, to ~35mm. On a 1010mm wheelbase this ~=2 degrees angle, equivalent to a mild ~3.5% road gradient.
This felt good. Legs feel very much like they do after an outdoor ride. Hip flexors don’t feel like they were being activated so much (ie. too much). Glutes and hamstrings felt like they were able to do more work and it felt good.
I’ve mentioned here before that I mainly ride in very hilly terrain, with limited flat roads; because a lot of the hills are very steep (pace slow) this means that time-wise I spend a good proportion of my outdoor riding going up hills, ie. with the bike tilted up to varying degrees.
Therefore, it makes some sense for me to replicate this indoors, and it’s not a surprise that setting the trainer bike up to better mimic my common outdoor riding position (front axle raised higher than rear) feels more natural to me and any adaptations I may have developed from forever riding hills.
@mcneese.chad’s theory re aur pressure forces sounds reasonable, but as Chad says it’d need tunnel time to test it; my use-case here doesn’t depend on that theory holding up - tilting up simply better reflects my position outside.
I’m glad this thread started 
because on current evidence (just a couple of hard threshold Workouts so far…) this simple change of raising the front 1-1.5" seems to be suiting me very well and it feels much better and more ‘realistic’ than previously when axles were level. 
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Awesome. We can speculate about the reason behind it, but the most important aspect is if it works (or not) for people. I’m so happy that we helped you find something to help. 
Happy Training!
I know that this is not a cure-all, and will not work for everyone, but it is a useful tool that is so easy to try, that I think more people should give it a shot.
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Just started to train again after 7 years of no exercise. I’ve been commuting 10-15min, 25-30 there and back, for the last 4 months. I’m also 40lbs heavier than I was previously but still relatively flexible.
I just started indoor riding and holy… It’s so much different than outside. My first workout I started to get right hip flexor pain up in my groin that started to flare down lower on the muscle.
Today I did a recovery ride and it flared up again after the first short 30second sprint towards the end of the ride. But today I had risen the front wheel about 1.5" maybe 2. It felt better than yesterday but still not enough to relieve the discomfort compared to outside. I cannot stay on the hoods long at all indoors and feel most comfortable on the horizontal part of the bar. I spend all my time on the hoods outdoors just fine.
Had done a few moderate/hard effort rides outside and never had this problem. The one thing that has gone away indoors is my toes getting numb, as well as virtually not lateral knee movement. My ass also hangs off the back of the seat a few inches compared to outside.
I’m desperate for a solution because I really would like to do my ramp test and get into a base plan… I’m supposed to be seeing a fitter soon and waiting for them to get back to me. Any fit recommendations?
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@santiagoarana when I started this thread I was using an older Kurt Kinetic dumb trainer. I now have a Wahoo Kickr smart trainer and the difference in inertia makes how you pedal over the top slightly different. I’m mot saying this will cure anything as riding inside is probably part elevating front wheel, part no side to side motion (unless you have a rocker plate), and part inertia related.
I’m not a fitter so just guessing here. Your comment about being further back reminded me of doing big ring super low rpm seated drills. I have not done them for a while but, I believe I always sat hard in the saddle and moved back. Thus my inertia angled response.
Perhaps @mcneese.chad or other more qualified can chime in?
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For starters, you can check out this FAQ that covers saddle issues specifically, but can cross over into other fit issues
Lifting the front axle higher than the rear is something I like and recommend. Fine tuning that to preference can sometimes help with hand, arm and shoulder issues but it’s not a cure-all.
As Landis mentions, differences in trainer flywheels and the related forces at the pedals sure could be at play here. Some trainers to a better job of replicating that feel vs others. What trainer are you using?
In addition to the trainer, consider your cadence between inside and outside. Is it similar or different?
And as covered in the Saddle FAQ, I will separately mention the consideration of adding some ‘motion’ to your setup. You can start with simple foam mats and the like to see if some amount of movement (vs the typical rigid trainer) is beneficial or not. I can go into more detail if you are interested.
I’m using a saris h3. I read they have one of the best fly wheels for road feel replication.
I think the point about cadence is a larger factor than I realized. I can hold high cadence and it ‘feels’ comfortable on the road because there’s time to coast, adjust and stop. But indoors with no break I think I’m not used to it. I was holding about 95-105 during the hard sections of the work out and not being used to erg I think I wasn’t waiting long enough for it to adjust to a lower cadence when I try to go to 85ish. I would panic after trying to adjust and just keep the high cadence so I could stay at the appropriate wattage. Will work on that.
Will also try unstabilizing the side feet of the trainer, as I’m on carpet and extended them quite a bit to get the trainer stable.
Thanks for the tips.
Do you believe I should post pone the ramp test and just get some 30-60min rides in to adjust and get my hip flexor feeling better? While incorporating some stretching and strengthening exercising.
With respect to ERG mode, if you use it… please ignore the power data. Focus mainly on setting and holding whatever cadence you desire. “Cadence is King” is a phrase I use. If you watch, and worse yet… try to manipulate power while in ERG mode, you will more often make things worse than better. Set and hold a steady cadence… then let the trainer and app do the work.
Once you do that, I think your ERG experience will improve. Changing cadence in a workout is fine, but make it deliberate and generally quick when you move up and down the RPM range, then get steady again at the new cadence.
I hesitate to offer any advice on the hip flexor side of life. I just don’t have confidence in what I can suggest.
With respect to testing vs doing some short rides, I do think taking some mellow rides to try some setup options and get more experience in ERG could be useful before taking on a test.