My (modeled) ftp back in February was at 260, had some hard efforts and looking at race efforts that looks right to me. After an April injury my riding decreased substantially, and taking August off the bike my FTP started around 205W and is now up around 225W on just 7 weeks of TB1 and TB2. My vo2max jumped a bunch too, and I can really feel it. Did some over-threshold work last night and felt really really good, but held back until I’m ready to formally test FTP and move on to doing sweet spot work.
The group ride last night finished the 21+ mile route in under 58 minutes, in similar conditions (no wind, cool temps) I’ve done the same but my average power was 241W and NP was 262W - LOL not going to happen at current ftp of 225W my time sucking wheels lasted 15 minutes before they were well above my threshold and I dropped off the back and went back to doing an hour of aerobic endurance work.
There was a semi-recent podcast where Chad talked about this false dichotomy he sees a lot between muscular capacity and aerobic capacity, and which one is your limiter and where should your focus be in training. Strong muscles push the pedals harder, so it follows that going faster is down to stronger muscles; except, the longer you push the pedals the more fuel those muscles need, and fueling happens aerobically. If you don’t have the aerobic base of extra, more efficient mitochondria, and a cardio system that is really good at pushing more oxygen and blood through your body, it doesn’t matter how super strong your muscles are, because they won’t be getting or processing enough fuel to make a difference.
Stated less long-windedly: Base work enables you to you use your muscles to their full potential, which makes you faster.
Not at all. I just hope I remembered all that correctly.
BUT…it seems to me that ALL endurance training ‘enables you to use your muscles to their full potential.’
I remember that segment from the podcast…and if I remember correctly…it was not referring exclusively to base training.
I suppose the boiled down version of my question/confusion is this - In what fundamental way is base training different than build training?
Because…it seems to me that a goal of the build phase is to increase aerobic endurance as well. Perhaps all of this simply comes back to the idea of periodisation…there IS no fundamental difference, but it is simply a method to switch up training on your bodyh. Chad has mentioned multiple times that cycling is almost exclusively an endurance sport in all disciplines…not a strength based sport. This is not a concept contained exclusively within the base phase.
90%, or more, of the work you do will increase aerobic endurance. It’s fine to say it’s the focus of base phase, because of a lack of anaerobic contribution, but you don’t need to do TB to get the benefits.
If you’re not coming back from an injury, a long break from training, or just have time to burn I can’t see TB being the best option to drive performance.
Do a SSB plan either LV or MV and you’ll hit multiple energy systems while still getting the benefit of aerobic work. You can always add Z2 or tempo to the end of workouts if you feel aerobic endurance is a limiter and you have time.
I’m honestly of a mind that for most amateur athletes linear periodization isn’t necessary and is probably somewhat counter productive to improvement. As long as you have a reasonable training load, take rest weeks, and are motivated and not mentally fatigued with training, you should be able to see improvement year round. I’ve moved to a loose block style periodization and find it much more engaging and very effective. Hopefully I’ll be saying the same next summer.
@Tanner1280 My best season was loosely linear with some block style periodization, of course you can get fast without following a strict linear periodization model. Right now I’m looking for some structure, while not burning out before March.
Part of the reason I like doing long aerobic rides outside is that it naturally keeps the anaerobic system warm. And speaking of anaerobic/intensity that is another reason I’m doing traditional base - to support concurrent strength training. In the past my legs were too tired from SSB sessions. With traditional base I’m able to do intensity in the gym to ‘build more power generators’ while doing aerobic work on the bike to ‘increase fuel delivery’ to those generators.
@bbarrera That makes sense, just stating that there’s options besides the standard base>build>specialty progression. Consistently doing a variety of work will take you a long way.
A lot of it obviously has to do with fitness level and goals as well. We’re all different and what works for one may not work for another. I’m trying to keep an open mind and focus on how my training effects me mentally as much as physically. If it’s not fun and adds stress, I don’t do it.
After getting back on the bike last year I jumped into TR plans and did lots of structure. Wasn’t crazy about it after finishing build so started making my own “plans”, which eventually became rough training blocks. I’ve got 470hrs in this year without injury or explosion and credit keeping training fun and varied to making that possible. I still do the work, just not by chasing numbers every workout. (Full disclosure, I recognize I’m an outlier and don’t recommend ramping up to 500hrs+ in a single year off the couch.)
I was off for 5 years. Spent a couple months grinding myself up very steep hills and then started TR. SSBMV wasn’t easy, but manageable. I then jumped into GBHV and that was ok. My FTP was up on every ramp test, but I didn’t feel “strong” exactly.
One day I was doing a weekend SS workout, Tallac +3 maybe and rode through all of the breaks. It was hard but felt good, so I started doing longer and longer sweetspot workouts and ditched the VO2 and anaerobic work.
My FTP didn’t go up much but by March I could ride hours at sweetspot and felt awesome. Unfortunately I only had that one speed so the couple races I jumped in were just meh… Fixed that with a lot of intensity while keeping up the volume this summer.
Sounds like you needed to raise the ceiling with some vo2 work. VO2max declines with age unless you fight it. I’ve struggled with it. For weeks when I’m forced to train 100% indoors the plan going forward is to do at least one vo2 workout a week regardless of what phase of linear periodized training I’m in.
That was it exactly. Not a lot of VO2 max intervals but lots of 4-15min climbs for stravaverals on long rides this summer did the trick. I’m planning on keeping up the intensity this winter but skewing a bit more to the aerobic side of things and cutting a few hours/week aside from big focused blocks. I’d wager my power is better than its ever been clear across my PDC, so something seems to be working.
My “A” event is a cross country trip next summer. Aerobic durability is the premium. I will start training again Nov. If my leg complains, I’ll seek medical attention. Plan to do SSLV but substituting longer SS workouts from MV and HV. Also at least one aerobic ride/week.
I recently read Friel’s “fast after 50” book. It’s a decent read, mostly common sense stuff. If there was one common theme throughout the book, it was “intensity is key” to staying fast as we age. Friel is pretty adamant that us old guys spend way too much time cruising around in zone 2 and we’re getting needlessly slower because of it. I don’t think SSB really qualifies as the type of intensity he’s focused on in the book, but the “more intensity” theme was a contributing factor for me to try SSB this year for the first time vs. more traditional endurance and tempo base work.
Ultimately, I think v02 max work is the key to fighting off father time, but I just can’t bring myself to do structured v02 intervals unless I’ve got a big event coming up.
I was off for 10 yrs and found SSB1 and 2 felt like building a house on sand, with no aerobic endurance,
This! I came back to cycling after almost 10 years of erratic cycling and a stroke 2 years earlier. Got a tacx vortex, an internet connection and a zwift account. Did their FTP builder plan + some racing. in a matter of 5 weeks my FTP went from 110 to 165. And one day boom! I wasn’t able to turn the pedals anymore. Even 15 minutes at 60 watts felt like hard work. My racing carreer brutally ended
TB is what got me on Trainerroad. I knew I had to rebuild my aerobic capacity from scratch. But what got me hooked was the progression. Speed drills, then muscular drills, then power drills. 1-2-3. It took me 2 rounds of TB to be able to complete SSB1. And then two more rounds of SSB1 to be able to complete SSB2. In the mean time max cadence went from 120 without bouncing to 180. Max power went from 300 to 600 - 700. I felt comfortable at low 50-60 RPM and high cadence 110+ RPMs. Un fortunatelu you don’t get those little stuff from ssb. There are some drills but not as often and not as progressive.
I really really like TR’s Traditional Base (TB). Have only done MV outside and “HV” but tried HV on the trainer and ended up dropping one workout a week. TB is great.
my time sucking wheels lasted 15 minutes before they were well above my threshold and I dropped off the back and went back to doing an hour of aerobic endurance work.
