I will focus on pure VO2max workouts based on my MMP-curve from wko4 and long endurance rides
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Iām doing something similar:
- TRās Short Power Build plan
- substitute mid-week ride for group ride as its all about threshold and short power
- add a long endurance ride on the weekend
Something similar happened to me. I started training again after a year off the bike. I wanted to regain fitness quickly so I naively started doing 2 VO2 max workouts a week a few months after riding again. After 5 weeks of that with one rest week, I was feeling great and excited by the progress. The next week I crashed, got sick and was exhausted.
I reactivated my TrainerRoad account specifically to force my self to stick to more SS intervals in the SS base plan.
Others can probably handle more VO2 work, but I quickly learned that 2 x/wk was too much for me at this stage.
You definitely need a solid base to build VO2 upon
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I am planning on updating this thread after Iām done with my first half of build. I think I posted above, but Iām doing a modified short power build / Oly triathlon plan. Sticking with the 2 short power workouts from the plan each week and 1 running interval day. Rest of training will be zone 1 (or straddling zone1/zone2 in 5 zone model).
Not sure if Iām going to have some sort of crazy progress since I just donāt see how it is physiologically possible, but what Iām noticing so far is it is much easier to be compliant with the plan Iāve set forth. Easy days are easy, hard days are hard. There is only a little bit of in between for the long run day, as even though it is zone 1, 90 minutes on your feet will still cause a decent amount of fatigue and require proper fueling.
Those 90 minute hard rides in the plans can make indoor training a chore, so doing a .7 to .75 ride instead is something new I can look forward to. Iām hoping the weather here will get better in a few weeks, as I think I have a 2 hour indoor capā¦
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Hi apond58,
Yes, I was referring to that 3x10min workout at 90% of FTP or SS. According to Seiler, the one-hour Power (FTP) separates Z2 from Z3, so at 90% FTP you are in the upper end of Z2. But, not all FTPās are created equal. An 8min or 20min FTP-test tends to overestimate your hour power (60min FTP-test). So, if your FTP was assessed by one of the shorter tests, and lets say it happened to overestimate your ārealā FTP, then you could be in the lower Z3.
But what the heck, if you feel good in what you are doing and your fitness is improving, then what you are doing canāt be wrong 
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Hi Dave,
you can also effectively convert IIb and Iix into IIa by training in Z1 (POL). The only thing is, that conversion really starts when fatigue begins, because it is then, that you begin to recruit those IIb and Iix fibers. And at low intensity, it takes long until you begin to fatigue. That is the purpose of those long (extensive) low intensity weekend rides.
If SS is defined as 88%-92%FTP, then SS is definitely not in Z3 (POL). Z3 is above 100%FTP. But as the saying goes, āthere is more than one way to skin a catā
Leadville sounds great and I wish you finishing well.
I think this is a valid point (and reason to look at the findings with qualification). Unfortunately I think what has muddied the waters most for me is that Seiler has combined findings from various sports. So elite athletes, from several endurance sports, over many years, with inconsistent and likely incomplete training logs, in a huge aggregate. This has been presented as a strength of his population studies but I think it just leads to confusion. What conclusions can I draw from this 30,000ft view other than very general ones. āThey donāt work too hard mostly, but when they do, itās lights out.ā Excuse the French but no shit Sherlock.
His zone model isnāt supposed to be prescriptive. Itās descriptive (and perhaps overly aggregate). Despite that, ppl are trying to use it to make training plans. Heās a scientist, not a coach, so his attempt to generalize across different disciplines, while interesting scientifically, holds less practical value for me than I originally hoped. I might have gotten more out of this stuff (at my level) by someone individually looking at various endurance sports and then leaving it to me to extrapolate to cycling.
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agreed, and I should have been more specific that āworld class athletesā and where he teaches meant pulling in a lot of data on cross-country skiers, short track skaters, etc. So that makes it harder for the average Joe cyclist to extract good take-aways for cycling.
From my point-of-view, and combining it Frielās āFast After 50ā book, my action item is to focus shorter trainer sessions on intensity. That maps well to TRās short power, or general build plans. And then sprinkle in longer outdoor rides (I lose my mind doing 2+ hour sessions on trainer).
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I understand where youāre coming from. Iām with you on this one.
Makes sense. My VLamax/VO2max, etc metabolic testing using INSCYD is still in progress, so whereas currently Iām in a heavy tempo/threshold training stage, I may switch it up if VLamax comes back low (which is desirable for my type of riding). If so, I have good reason to go through a VO2max-focused block or two.
Iām having fun getting dropped on crits and Wed night, right now its a game to get dropped later and later. Eventually fitness will be high enough to not get dropped, only a matter of time. Luckily both rides require a lot of vo2max and anaerobic efforts. So short power build plus some long weekend rides sound like a perfect match. And I get to say things like āIām training polarizedā during group ride conversations LOL.
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I will cautionā¦ hard group rides will be a lot of middle zone work. Just remember to balance that fun/structure aspect of your training so you can hit your targets for the interval sessions.
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Thatās a good tactic. If I said that Iād be 50yds down the road before they stopped laughing:grin:
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Depends on how hard I ride it, this earlier post shows a pretty common polarized Wed night group ride.
I was sick last Tuesday and got dropped early on last Wed ride (first this year for me). So still not feeling well, post-drop turned that into a Tempo ride:
And then on Sunday did my second Crit, got dropped after 10 minutes but feeling good so turned it into a personal 4 corner TT and it looks more like my hard Wed group ride:
We have a lot of wind on Wed night, even when I get dropped itās pretty easy to see 20-33% at vo2max/anaerobic after I upload my data.
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Agree. No pro endurance athlete is in low carb diet! You should neither!
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That is a very broad statement. I donāt follow racing closely, but I would not be surprised to find some Kona level tri athletes or others in long and ultra endurance events using low-carb.
Admittedly, speculation on my partā¦ but I find that claim above to be rather bold and question the accuracy.
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Well, maybe your right i canāt possibly know for sure. But i feel its like this.
I didnt want to be harsh or arrogant or whatever.
I just read the book from Matt Fitzgerald: the Endurance Diet. He spend time with nummerous pro athletes in endurance sports. I suggest read this if you havent already. Its really good and explains what i meant.
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I have the book and need to sit down and dig into it.
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It really helped me changing my diet and see the carbs differently, i mean more positiveā¦ because (we as cyclists) train so much it really makes sense to eat carb centered.
Keep on posting chad. You inspire us!
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I actually heard them talking on one of the latest podcast on fasttalk, that its ok to have a minimum of 6 hours, if you have at least one longer Ride and one HIT. So im exatcly in this range (6-10hours) and i will try it out, starting next weekā¦
What do you think?
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