For everyone following this thread with questions about the updated training plans, it looks like itās the first thing they plan to address in tomorrowās podcast:
New Training Plans, Pro Racing, Left/Right Balance and More ā Ask a Cycling Coach 308
Odd Training Level Issue: Baxter -1 (Indoor) and Baxter -1 (Outdoor) both 52 TSS. Indoor version is rated Endurance 4.0, outdoor version is Endurance 3.4. Why the difference for the same duration and TSS?
Iām just guessing here but maybe it has to do with the likelihood that there will be considerable non pedaling time outside but again, just a guess.
Jonathan seems to be suggesting that these easier workout plans will make us all faster. Honestly, I am a little skeptical. Clearly these will work great when AT is available for all of us. My question is this: if easier really is better, is that what the beta users are all experiencing right now, or is the workout load somewhat similar to how it has been on the old plans, with perhaps a higher āpassā rate?
SUCCESS! The latest app download (updated Wed afternoon) fixed the Windows 10 grey screen problem for me.
In running Iāve seen many people getting faster by just running an piling miles.
There is an argument to be made about training while tired. If you are pushing hard non stop all the time it could lead to not training at the optimal levelā¦
Iām not scientist, so i have no clueā¦ But to me it seems that just because something is harder it not necessarily means itās better at making you betterā¦
Hey all,
Iām sorry for not being more active in here today! Please watch the short video below for more info and the FAQ below.
We messed up on not giving you more context and information on Workout Levels and the Updated Plans. Weāre committed to getting to that to you and it is our primary focus moving forward. Stay tuned for more!
What are Workout Levels?
Workout levels are a new metric in TrainerRoad that compares the relative difficulty of workouts within each energy system and training zone.
They range from 1 to 10 with some workouts even exceeding a level 10, with 1 representing an easy workout. Thus, a Level 6 Threshold workout is significantly harder than a Level 3 Threshold workout, but not as challenging as a Level 9 threshold workout.
How did you come up with them?
We leveraged the analysis made possible by our Machine Learning algorithms and the insights we have gained with Adaptive Training to accurately quantify the difficulty of any workout.
The result is a very accurate representation of workout difficulty that takes into account details such as interval repetition, interval length, interval format, recovery time and more.
How are these different from my individual Progression Levels Iāve seen in the Adaptive Training previews?
Your individual Progression Levels are a representation of your capabilities within the context of Workout Levels, and those are not yet ready for production.
Workout Levels are simply ML-driven quantifications of the relative difficulty of a workout, and those are what you now see for every workout.
Are Workout Levels comparable from one Zone to another?
No. Workout Levels are classified in two ways: (1) Zone (2) Workout Profile.
An example of Zones would be Endurance, Tempo, Sweet Spot, Threshold, VO2 Max, Anaerobic, Sprint.
Each Zone has various different Workout Profiles within it. Workout Profiles represent the interval structure of the workout. For example, the VO2 Max Zone has On-Offs, Float Sets, Sustained Intervals, Traditional, Attacks and more.
Workout Levels within a specific Zone and Workout Profile can be directly compared, while Workout Levels within a specific Zone but different Workout Profiles can only be loosely compared. Workout Levels between workouts of different Zones cannot be compared.
For example, a Threshold Level 4.0 and an Endurance 4.0 are not going to have the same RPE.
What is the max level?
There is no max level, but most workouts will fall within Workout Levels 1-10. If you are completing workouts above Workout Level 10, you are likely to gain more from reassessing and starting a new training plan at a higher FTP and lower Workout Levels.
How do I know how hard a workout is with these Workout Levels?
This understanding will come quickly as you train with Workout Levels.
For context, most athletes are able to complete a Level 3 workout regardless of where theyāre at in their training, while significantly fewer athletes tend to successfully complete a Level 8 workout unless their training has properly progressed them to that point.
Are Workout Levels personalized to each athlete?
No. Workout Levels are assigned to a specific workout based on itās difficulty, and is done regardless of an athleteās abilities.
Individual Progression Levels, an upcoming and currently unreleased feature, is what will be unique to each athlete.
Why are some workouts missing levels?
There are still some workouts missing Workout Levels that weāre working on fixing. If you find any instances of this, please share it with our Customer Support team at Support@TrainerRoad.com
Will my custom workouts have Workout Levels?
Yes, all TrainerRoad workouts and custom workouts should have Workout Levels assigned to them, but at this point we canāt endorse the Workout Levels of custom workouts.
As of now, Workout Levels are calculated uniquely for custom workouts and are not comparable to the Workout Levels of workouts in the TrainerRoad workout library.
Will Outside Workouts have Workout Levels?
Yes. Every workout in the TrainerRoad workout library will have Workout Levels assigned to them.
What is a reasonable progression rate with these Workout Levels?
Based on the data we have, anything within a 0.3-0.7 weekly progression in Workout Levels for a given Zone is considered achievable, productive and sustainable.
This doesnāt mean that an athlete couldnāt experience a 1, 2, or even 3 level increase in Workout Level from one week to the next, but these larger jumps are not likely to lead to productive and sustainable gains over time.
While there will be some individual variance between Workout Profiles and Zones for individual athletes, this progression is a data-backed approach that will yield performance gains.
How should I use this in conjunction with TSS and IF?
TSS, IF, Duration, and kJ(cal) are crucial metrics for understanding the impact of each workout, but none of them tells the full story.
For instance, long, slow rides can have the same TSS and kJ(cal) as short, more intense ones. Also, two workouts of the same length and IF may have vastly different work/recovery structures, making it hard to compare the experience of one to the other.
Workout Levels take all these factors into account in one easily understandable metric.
Why did you update the plans?
We are committed to constantly improving our training plans as we get more data and insight into how to make you faster.
Our progress so far with Adaptive Training and our Machine Learning Algorithms has allowed us to quantify workout difficulty with more precision than ever before, allowing us to create training plans that still accomplished the same objectives, but did so in an optimized way.
While this is a comprehensive update, we will continue to make improvements over time as we gain further insight.
What changes did you make to the plans?
Our goal was to use the data we have gotten about workout completion and ramp rates to optimize the plans. This meant the main focal points were to optimize the progression of different Zones within each plan, and to adjust their beginning and end points in order to accomplish the unique goals of each plan and do so in a way that increases your odds of sustainable and strong performance improvement.
In actuality, this meant a very different approach that merited rebuilding the plans from scratch while still adhering to the original goals of the plans. As such, we created 641 new workouts to satisfy these progressions and goals. Nearly every workout in every plan has been changed through either being swapped out with a different workout or being shuffled to a different point within the plan.
Do these new plans Adapt to me?
No, these plans are not adaptive, just like the previous plans. This update to our training plans uses insights weāve gained from the Adaptive Training Beta, but it is not Adaptive Training.
Why do the plans start at Levels 3-5?
Levels 3-5 (roughly) are an ideal starting point for athletes starting a new plan with an FTP assessment. This was discovered after analyzing completion rates at scale in great detail, looking for what delivers sustainable and strong improvement in performance throughout a training plan.
Why do the plans progress the way they do?
Based on the data we have, anything within a 0.3-0.7 weekly progression in Workout Levels for a given Zone is considered achievable, productive and sustainable.
This doesnāt mean that an athlete couldnāt experience a 1, 2, or even 3 level increase in Workout Level from one week to the next, but as those Workout Level increases get larger, and particularly when they are being accomplished in parallel with other high intensity Zones, they become less likely to lead to productive and sustainable gains over time.
While there will be some individual variance between Workout Profiles and Zones for individual athletes, this progression is a data-backed approach that will yield performance gains.
The new plans are lower in TSS than the previous plans ā why is this?
Using TSS as the main guiding metric in training plan construction can lead to a non-progressive ramp rate in how each energy system is trained. The result is commonly a plan that looks like it ramps consistently in terms of TSS, but is far from a consistent ramp in how it trains energy systems, causing non-productive lulls in training productivity and excessively hard workouts that can halt training progression.
In short, TSS is a vague metric that doesnāt take into account the unique demands of different types of training.
Since our focus is to make you a faster cyclist, we focus on training the energy systems that matter most to your goals. Using Workout Levels to build plans guarantees sustainable and productive ramp rates that are uniquely adjusted for each energy system and the goals of the plan.
Why did you make these new plans easier/harder? How will this better prepare me for my discipline?
In the spirit of constant improvement, our goal with these plans was to make them even more effective at making you a faster cyclist, not to make them easier or harder.
There is a temptation to assume that harder training will always yield better results, but our data shows that high quality training yields better results, and āhigh-qualityā is analogous with consistency and progression.
The start points, ramp rates, end points, rest weeks and tapers of these plans are all designed to put you in the best position to improve your performance as an athlete.
The rest weeks and tapers look a lot easier. Why did you change that?
A more optimized and consistent ramp rate increases importance of the Load:Deload balance of work and rest weeks. As such, we took a measured and conscious approach to reduce load during rest weeks and taper weeks in particular.
These changes will better prepare you to be consistent with your training throughout loading phases and better prepare you for peak performance on race day.
Why should I follow these new plans?
You should follow these new plans if you want a more optimized and data-driven approach to reaching your goals. Not to say you wonāt reach your goals following the previous plans, but following the new ones will increase your chances of success in reaching your goals.
Can I still follow the old plan thatās on my calendar?
Absolutely. You donāt have to change your current training block and can finish it out to avoid manually swapping out workouts. That said, we do recommend using these updated plans as soon as youāre able.
Iām almost done with my current plan ā should I update to the new plans?
If you are in the middle of a training block and switch to these updated plans, you may notice a decrease or increase in Workout Levels compared to what you have been doing.
If this is the case, our recommendation is to substitute the workouts that remain in your current training block for workouts with Workout Levels within .5 of what you have been doing recently.
Once you finish your current training block, youāll start with a Ramp Test with the new updated plans and the workouts will once again be calibrated to your fitness.
How do I update my Plan Builder Plan to get the new plans?
The easiest way is to update your current training block through the Calendar on TrainerRoad.com. To do this, go to the start date of your current training block, click the calendar annotation with the name of your current training block, then click āUpdate Planā.
If you have any questions on this, feel free to reach out to Support@TrainerRoad.com
What happened to the weekly tips?
We are planning to remove the weekly tips as we get closer to launching Adaptive Training. Since Adaptive Training will frequently adjust workouts in each week of a training plan, the current weekly tips will no longer apply.
When will we get updated triathlon plans?
This round of updates includes the bike portion of the triathlon plans, but not the run and swim portions of the plans.
This update was driven by the data and insights we have gained from Adaptive Training and our Machine Learning algorithms, which at this point are being applied to cycling-specific training only.
Consistent with our theme of constant improvement, we do anticipate updating other aspects of our triathlon training plans, but we have not ETA for this at the moment.
My plan disappeared after selecting an update ā how can I get it back?
Please reach out to our Customer Support Team at Support@TrainerRoad.com ā theyāll be able to get things sorted for you.
Iām getting a āSomething went wrong. There was an issue updating your plan.ā error ā how can I fix this?
The same can be said about easier too. Thatās the whole point of using data.
It is already acknowledged that everyoneās levels are unique, so why would it be a good idea to start each of these plans at a hard coded level?
Funny guy back againā¦my N=4 comment is specifically based at the results they have shared with us, for those thst have access to AT. Applying ML to the training plans, which was done yesterday for users without access to the beta AT plan doesnāt help. When I signed up last year, it wasnāt for AT (as far as I knew it wasnāt even being thought about), I evaluated several options and landed with TR, based on the community of like-minded (occasionally prone to disagreement), data driven folks on the TR side as well as the user/athletes. It was after reviewing data, not drinking the kool-aid. The TR team (contrary to some opinions in this thread) are not divine beings. I signed up for a training plan, not a religion. Nate, Chad, Pete, and Jonathan, are not my religious leaders, and should be able to defend (in the doctoral dissertation sense) why this is better for me, and not just the entire population. I question these changes, and want proof. Simply being told āit is betterā isnāt proof. That would be bordering on ignorance. TR has lots of successful stories of athletes (many of which were able to weather the HV plans), but I havenāt heard of any actual success with the beta AT plans of yet. The TR folks donāt need you to defend the changes, they are better suited to it. And again, I am attacking the idea, not any person. Perhaps thebTR team can share with us a progression over time for the percentage of users who are in the beta program, so we as subscribing athletes can guesstimate when we will all be inā¦Since they wonāt tell us numbers (subscribers, etc.), or any sort of projected target date.
I understand the reason behind this, but have two concerns:
It is/was nice to see the weekly tips in order to better understand the basic direction and goals of a given week, if not also for the demands and/or reasons each workout is in the week.
I and many others currently use the Weekly Tips for finding and substituting the default Sunday Sweet Spot workout with the longer Endurance workout option that was once the actual default workout.
Great feedback! We donāt want to get rid of the concept of Weekly Tips for good even though they are going away for now, but we have some ideas that fall in line with the objectives you outlined above. 
I totally get this point. However, I just donāt have time to pile on tons of miles. I do low volume and do add one endurance ride a week (plus I currently exchange the long ride for a 4 hour endurance ride. ) This has been very sustainable for me. My ftp is climbing rapidly, and suddenly going easy seems crazy.
Just wondering. Did you use the old plans prior to having any data from TR? Is there statistics and data somewhere on them that you were able to use before signing up?
Iāve been loving it so far on beta. I can actually accomplish the VO2 workouts (something I could not do on the static plans) and Iāve never had better repeatable anaerobic power than I do now. I have been able to do metric centuries at power targets that a year or two ago would have been either my FTP or Sweetspot. In my experience, the outcomes have been demonstrably positive and Iām willing to bet Iām not in the minority on that.
Thereās certainly more work that needs to be done to make it production ready, but the broad strokes are working well and Iām seeing gains and improvements that werenāt happening with the static plans, particularly in the build and specialty phases. Not to mention the progression is more comfortable and sustainable so far.
That is encouraging to hear. Logically, I think it will work, I am just not part of the beta group (which sounds like whining, sorry). Since starting TR HV, I havenāt failed a workout, and the VO2 work I am usually increasing the effort percentage. I think I have this week and next week modified enough to survive and still work hard in my build block. Keep up the gains!
Iāve got news for you. You are not going to get personalized plans just for you, with full explanations, unless you go with a personal coach. End of story.
The old TR plans were not personalized for you specifically before. Why is that suddenly a problem?
TR is working their way to fully personalized plans, minus the dissertation, with AT. No, you donāt have it yet, but these modified plans are based on learning that it sounds like will apply to EVERYONE once they do fully launch AT. That learning is that the old plans were too aggressive in ramping up intensity and/or too stingy on recovery.
Just because you have had some success with the old plans doesnāt mean that you wouldnāt have more success with the new ones. You canāt prove that until youāve tried them.
You can voice your dissent, but thereās no need to accuse people of being blind followers for having some trust in TR and not being prejudiced against the new plans.
If you donāt trust TR, then either use the workouts to build your own plans or leave. I donāt think TR is changing direction at this point, tweaking certainly, but not going backwards.
@Nate_Pearson @Jonathan
Is it possible to get a breakdown of demo and cyclist types (Short,Sus,Tri) that are in the AT beta now?
Also can you guys touch on who the āTri Coachā is? I know Nate competed in them, and I enjoy the current run workouts seen growth in both cycling/run but it would just be good to know who is in charge of the methodology when it comes to multi sport.
Thatās a great question, and a definite weakness in my argument for the old plans that Iām still trying to reconcile. Letās see if I can try to put my thoughts into words hereā¦
The straightforward answer: noāI did not have any information or data about the efficacy of the old plans prior to signing up for TR.
Aside from reading a lot of user testimonials and combing through existing usersā progressions on the forum, I didnāt have any actual data or statistics to suggest that TR plans were the best option out there. But, at the same time, I also didnāt have anything to compare that experience toā¦ TR has been my first and only foray into structured cycling training, and I really knew nothing about structured cycling training beforehand.
I imagine that this is what a new TR user might experience if they signed up todayāwithout any knowledge of the previous plans (since theyāve been removed from the customer-facing UX), theyād just accept that the plans available to them are the best alternative.
But, as an existing user, Iāve now been fortunate enough to see awesome gains with the old plans. They are something that I know works for me (although I recognize that they can definitely be aggressive for some individuals). In general, itās hard to convince someone to make changes to their routine. But itās that much harder to convince someone to change what theyāre doing when itās been workingā¦
Now, Iām in a situation where either I go with what Iām confident works (the old plans) or I switch over to something unproven that might, in a worst case scenario, slow down my training progress. And honestly, I have no problem making that switchābut only if I can see some data to reassure me that the switch wouldnāt be counterproductive.
Until now, weāve heard a lot of claims like āweāre confident these new plans will improve your performance more than the old plansā. And I sincerely hope they doā¦ but itād be nice to see some data (since the TR team certainly used data to drive the decision and make these claims) before I am sufficiently convinced to make the switch.
I donāt know if that explanation does my argument any justiceā¦ Iāve been reading TR forum posts all day and my mind has turned to mush. 
But hopefully it provides some insight into my hesitations!
Chad is our head Coach and has designed the tri plans.
Regarding demo info on athletes in the Beta, I can see if we can pull that but no promises.