Thanks. For those wondering (i.e. all of you), both ballstothewall.com and ballstothewalls.com are taken.
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Good follow-up. Iām glad that over the two episodes the myth that most pros train āpolarisedā (80/0/20) was cleared up.
Top effort at Setubal tri as well. You mentioned that you had one of the best bike splits on the day - are you still using a road bike with clip-on aero bars, or have you moved to a TT bike now?
Iād also like to thank Mikael for clarifying his view that the time distribution is more important for a triathlete than number of sessions. Many of us are time crunched, and are doing 30 minutes of work as a part of another workout. I do my running intervals as part of my middle distance run, so 1/3 of sessions on most weeks but it is as little as 9-10 minutes up to 30 minutes of intensity depending on which part of the plan Iām at, while running around 3 hours/week. Iāve been catching up on some of the previous podcasts and this would appear to be more of a common thread as both Dan Lorang and Dr. Skiba prescribe small amounts of intensity (or more) as a part of some longer workouts, which will tend to throw off the goal distribution ratio that Seiler sees with many pros who are often doing multiple workouts in a day and can split up workouts by intended goal while many of us are doing some hybrid ones.
you left out the best part:
Based on Manunzios and colleaguesā analysis of six-months preparation analysis of a 2nd place Race Across America finisher team (n = 4 athletes) the TID may vary depending on the method employed.
and survey says:
Retrospective power data analysis based on the 3-zone model revealed a pyramidal TID (Zone 1: 63%; Zone: 28%; Zone 3: 9%) when including coasting phases
and without coasting:
The same data set without coasting phases reflected a threshold TID with a greater Zone 2 emphasis (48%/39%/13%).
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This has been my experience too! I train 6 to 9 hours a week. I did the sweet spot base plans last year and found them hard to get motivated for. They were very monotonous and the āsemi-hardā nature of those workouts seems (for me anyway) hard to psych myself up for. Now, following a polarized plan I know Iām going to have 2 hard (hard) days a week, each followed by rest days and two longer endurance-focused rides on the weekend (with the occasional more event-specific group ride thrown in on the weekend).
Itās worked well for me. I am more motivated. I am more compliant with my plan. I am also finding that my fitness is less ā¦ brittle, perhaps? The endurance work seems to be paying off by allowing me to go harder for longer in my target events which are in the 100km to 160km range, before blowing up or being unable to stick with the group. Not sure if thatās because of some physiological response or if Iām just less fatigued on the polarized plan.
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Delayed response - 100% agree with your point and think itās important for riders to know that 120, 130, whatever percentage are not miracle numbers.
Mention my experience as have a ton of data. When I switched training from criterium focused to TT focused some of the top end went away due to training changes. Over a period of 5+ years the 1 min and 5 min maxes dropped.
Recently decided to take more time mtn biking and a bit of a break from TTāing so working those shorter duration efforts again and seeing the snap coming back. Albeit slow progress.
Iām also old (low 50s LOL) and very much consumed with career so an odd time for training.
Cheers and thanks for your continued insightful posts on the forum.
-Mark
Did my best HC climb after doing high-volume sweet spot base, thought it was perfect prep for a 2+ hour sustained climb.
My biggest ftp gains were from pyramidal training, during a 3 month period with distribution roughly 40% zone1, 45% zone2, 15% zone3.
Also seen good gains during periods of time where I increase long rides in zone 1. Iāll bet polarized would work well for me too, in particular for events like crits or road races. At times I think more time in zone1 is needed to work its magic, which means 12+ hour training weeks. Sweet spot definitely works for me on a 6-9 hour training week.
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rough averages for all workouts over the 3 month period.
Using WKO4+ estimates for relative % vo2max:
Zone1: ~40% relative vo2max < 65%
Zone2: ~45% relative vo2max > 65% and < 85%
Zone3: ~15% relative vo2max > 85%
those averages are eyeballed, for example zone1 by month is 42.5%, 38%, 37.1% and roughly accounting for time by month (Jan 30.5 hours, Feb 24.6 hours, Mar 26.5 hours). At some point Iāll get this properly charted and let WKO4 do the math.
Using GoldenCheetah with power zones based on CP (using FTP as proxy for CP):
Zone1: 45% CP < 85%
Zone2: 23% CP >85% and < 100%
Zone3: 32% CP > 100%
Iām a 5-9 hour/week guy (2015: 360 hours, 2016: 424, 2017: 328; 2018: 304). In summer it gets hot and its my off season, and I move my workouts to the gym and pool.
Really no months averaging >10 hours/week except for May 2017, which happened to be two months after that 3-month Jan-March block. Around here āMay is Bike Monthā and in addition to riding more at lower intensity, I also did an 100 mile ride and 200 mile double century. With that context, during the 46.5 hours logged in May, the % vo2 polarized results were 64.3% / 31.4% / 4.3%; and power polarized 68% / 16% / 16%.
My WKO4 modeled FTP went from 239 in early January to 278W in May, then dropped into 250s by July with a whooping total of 25 hours between June and July (my off season). Stayed in 250s until dropping into 240s by December. A testament to the lasting impact of building a large (for me) aerobic base.
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Iāve got 3.4 latest stable release of GoldenCheetah, then went to:
- Trends
- created a season 2017 January - March
- selected new season
- clicked on Power
- clicked on Moreā¦ at top of power window
- select āShow in zonesā and also select āUse polarized zonesā and then Done
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Hi
Iāve been dabbling with polarized training for a few weeks now and Iām approaching my next ramp test. Iām curious about the recovery week structure people are following, all advice welcome.
I set this chart recently and have asked Mark how he is defining the Polarised zones, no answer yet.
Colleagues ā For the folks doing, or trying to get to a point of doing āpolarizedā, specifically working toward 4 x 8ās or doing them, is it worth having a support group thread for progress and general āthis workout kicked my buttā type stuff.
I know there is the Workout of the Day thread but that is diffuse and the big POL thread Chad M. created.
But this 4 x 8 fixation is a specific type of bike training fetish.
-Mark
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Just a whole week of LT1 I guess but in all honesty is there really such a thing if youāre doing 80/20 By session ratio? I donāt really think youād need a recovery week per se.
Am I wrong?
I looked at the source code for Golden Cheetah, the Zones are defined as follows (CP = critical power):
Zone1: CP < 85%
Zone2: CP >85% and < 100%
Zone3: CP > 100%
Ah Iām not code savvy so thanks for that, was a good idea. Mmm, Iām not sure about those percentages tbh as CP and FTP arenāt the same thing. Need to think about this.
I switched from Golden Cheetah to WKO4, and can easily define my own charts with customized polarized zones.
A perhaps non-productive and overly simple response:
After missing the Spring season due to illness, I set a mountain summit finish RR as my goal event for the year (it was the first Saturday in June). My prep was to commit to riding 300mi/week for four weeks, two days of riding intensity zones 3/4, and every other days riding in intensity zone 1 or 2, depending on how I felt.
I set a PR on the climb. FTP was 340 @ 72kg going into the race (it was around 330 at the start of the 4 week block).
Iāve kept up with the same 300/week, two days of zone 3, the rest zones 1-2. Itās been three more weeks, FTP is up a bit. Iām lucky in that Iāve had the month off from teaching, so all I have to do is ride and recover (And my 52-year-old legs need it!). One more week of this and Iāll do my first intervals of the year.
The Keep It Simple part: really, all Iāve been doing is the same thing that HR-based coaches were saying, and I was doing, 30 years ago. Ride as much as you can. Two days of maybe 40 min in HR zone 3 (in a 5 zone system), the rest in zone 1 or 2 depending on how you feel. After 12 weeks of that, āpolarizeā and start doing the zone 5 work.
It works, whether youāre doing 20 hours a week or 8. On the low side of volume, youāre riding a bit more in HR zone 2 and less in zone 1. Maybe the hard days are zone 4 rather than the 3/4 borderline. But itās about the same as Lydiard was saying in the 60s. You can powermeter or lactate analyzer split hairs over this (and over the last 20+ years, Iāve gone down that rabbit hole), but itās pretty simple.
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I would tend to agree on the LT1 but I would like to refer to the study of Thomas Stƶggl and Billy Sperlich on Polarized training (group C).
Iām probably overthinking this as per, I might experiment with each successive block and see what works best for me. thanks @ValeCyclist
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