well we’ll just call that a statistical outlier, after all it is quite rare to get a WR in hot conditions for a reason.
Maybe the most sensible post ever.
Close second. Or maybe the other way around… 
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Do you think that the “inevitable” plateau is because you’ve maxxed out your LT power within the constraints of your VO2max? Is it not conceivable that by following polarised training for a period during the year, to shift your VO2 max ceiling, gives an opportunity for further improvements to LT power later in the training year?
This is how I’m rationalising a upcoming period of polarisation - before swapping back to the TR Sweetspot prescribed training.
Welcome to the forum. This is how I’m planning to incorporate it into my training - spend the back end of the year/start of next year doing polarised training. Then follow the normal prescribed TR plans. Like you, I haven’t found much on how to incorporate this training into the training year, but the rule of specificity of training for the goal race requirements must override the polarised training “rules” at some point.
For those that have followed polarised training, what happens to your FTP - and does it depend which FTP test protocol you use?
I generally use the 2 x 8mins protocol. It gives a number for which the harder workouts are just about achievable. I test about 10% lower using the ramp test.
I ask the question because I’m about to start polarised training for the first time, and was wanting to get some understanding of what happens to your FTP. I could imagine that it may drop (especially if I used the 20mins FTP test protocol) since I won’t be doing the longer SweetSpot workouts. I suppose if others experience is that FTP drops during this period, but allows FTP to rise higher in the subsequent Sweet Spot based training plans, then it’ll (possibly) avert the risk of pulling the plug on the polarised training early.
I’ve polarized my training this summer and I’ve reached a higher FTP than last year, but I think the higher FTP isn’t as important as the other things I’ve noticed. One of the significant things I’ve seen is a greater recovery between intervals and day-to-day, and the capacity for more submaximal intervals in a session. I think focusing on being able to do more work at or near FTP is more important than worrying about getting it higher. Increases will come with being able to do more work close to FTP. If I’m doing FTP work, I’ll target around 95% and aim to get at least an hour in (2x30’ or 4x20’) with shortish recoveries. And then I’ll hit 4x8mins @ 90% of pVO2 max on another session. These suck but they provide a great stimulus. Then it’s z2 for the rest of the week. I aim for 13-16 hrs/wk. Now I’m prepping for cx, so the intervals have gotten a bit more intense. Polarizing things has definitely worked and I feel fresh for the hard days.
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I haven’t tested FTP for ages because I just don’t trust the results from an indoor trainer in the summer, despite the air-blower pointing at me.
That said, the last time I tested (ramp test) I was 272, which I bumped up to 275. Then after 4 weeks of polarised training I recorded an NP of 276 for a 2-hour race. So too many variables to be really sure, but maybe I got a 10 watt bump.
But as @tkruger suggests, I don’t think it’s just about what number you can produce in a ramp / 8min / 20min test. For me it’s been about freshness and repeatability.
Compare and contrast the power files from the races before and after the polarised training block. See how much more often and much deeper into the race I’m able to make and respond to attacks. Conventional wisdom might have me doing 30/15s to sharpen up my anaerobic engine, but if that puts me in a hole before race day, it’d have done more harm than good.
(In fact, one of the guys who did both races with me said during the second race “you must be feeling strong today!”. But he might just have been trying to trick me into doing more work on the front…)
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I forgot to mention in my post I do a 50-60’ FTP test. I feel the longer test gives me a better ballpark number. I do a step test to figure pVO2 max and shorter duration tests for FRC and Pmax.
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I polarized my training from Nov - Mar. Had an all time FTP-test in late March (20min test … I actually don’t test very often). However, I sucked in all my key races afterwards. Big time. These are 5-10 hour races. Clearly worse than the two years before. And this little bump in FTP did not really help with shorter races either.
I clearly lacked grinding the watts for hours this year. Hammering up several 30-45’ climbs at SST in a row, nope, did not work out this year. Started too late with the specific training. Next year I will so more Tempo/SST work again. And take care that there is a clear progression built in my “plan”.
And I thought it would be such a grand idea to build vo2max first, than layer threshold and finish up with SST. Nope, based on my pro/elite training thread here I will touch each zone throughout the year next time. And start building my sustainable effort tolerance early on. Building the motor alone did not work this year.
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So dissecting the protocol in the paper posted above, specifically the C block POL protocol…
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Aside from the 4x4min 3min active recovery HIIT sessions used in the HIIT protocol, any idea what they are using for HIIT sessions on the HIGH days? VO2 max of some sort I would assume?
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Also, on the LOW days in the POL protocol; for the shorter LOW rides I am assuming there is an application of SST intervals on those days?
Personal Experience Update
Moving right along and did a very solid 4 x 8 outdoors this weekend. Posted in “ride of the day” so won’t repeat the graphic. Hit all four bouts between 105% and 112% More rest that the 2-3 min talked about but it’s an outdoor loop and is what it is. Accumulated a ton of minutes in the right HR zone.
Followed up next day with solid 2 x 20 min. One at 100% and another at 90%
Not willing to say Polarized is showing gains but am very happy with how fitness is progressing and how incorporating 5x5 and 4x8 feels. Both physically and emotionally.
Next few weeks are fun time then back to structure (base and weights) through fall and winter. Sometime in September will do a full on MLSS test again and see where things stand.
Hope y’all are enjoying your journeys!
Mark
On edit… meant to add that even if FTP or MLSS is not moving as a specific metric, my RPE at 230-235w and ability to hold efforts absolutely is. Have not popped a 20 min effort over 250w yet but haven’t tried. Historically that is my fit zone: 250-255 repeatable over a season with occasional days 255-265 for 20 min. Usually a “great race” day in a 10 mile TT event. Meaning things are going well and making slow but steady progress. This weekend was one year anniversary of breaking ribs so feel I am 100% back and its a matter of what types of fitness I want to build but the base is solid.
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My fitness matched the specificity of the intervals. I know that there have been some that say periodization is not required for fitness gains, but I think there’s still a spot for specialization as it not only pertains to fitness but required pacing for your races.
I haven’t been testing, but have a lactate meter on order, so plan to do a re-baseline soon to see if my manually set FTP is close to MLSS. I’ve just been bumping up my FTP (or down) based on how well I’m doing on some of the key workouts. Back in early May after a really good March/April, I was able to knock out workouts using 305 as the setting, but after having a running related injury my bike fitness took a dive after ramping my running mileage back up, but now I’m using 295 after having that inconsistency and then a complete week off in late July. I just know that at my current training level, I’m not going to be making any big jumps over a 4-6 week period. The biggest jumps I’ve had when testing were about 10 watts. I did last test back in September, but that put me at 275 and the workouts were too easy, so I bumped it to 280 and have been just adjusting manually after each block depending on how well I did. Despite what they say, the ramp test does take a lot out of me, and will negatively impact my runs and swims for 1-2 days afterwards and to me it’s almost a wasted workout, at least the 2x8 workout was a really good VO2 max workout.
Long
This is a report of my Polarized Experience.
Background. Former racer, Mid pack masters 50+. 9years off the bike, started riding in April 2018. 3 rides/week, did a 130 mile Grand Fondo in 9/18 and ended up with knee tendonopathy. Started Trainer Road 11/18, did Traditional Base 1 and 2, Then SSB 1 &2, all low volume. FTP started out very low, less than 100, and after SSB 2 184. Started a modified Polarized plan on 6/12/19. 3 2 hr rides/week, keeping my pulse at 120, based on Chad’s spreadsheet. I also did one VO2 max workout/week going through the VO2 Max progression that Coach Chad had put forth. One week off early July to help my daughter and her husband move cross country. Did a total of 7 weeks. I also did the weekend group ride, which consistently pushed me.
I had failed on several of the VO2 workouts in SSB, while able to complete things like Lamark.
I repeated my ramp test this week and FTP increased from 184 to 188. I attempted an hr test, but the course I chose was less than Ideal, Strong wind in one direction and hills, although small ended up with over 800 ft of climbing in 90 min. Average power was 175.
When I started the 2 hr rides I had to keep the power down to 100 watts, and had a fair amt of decoupling. By the end, I had moved the power up to 135 watts, all at the same pulse of 120 with no drift. I was able to complete all of the VO2 max intervals, including some that I had failed on previously. What I find is that I recover much more quickly from hard efforts, but my top end hasn’t appreciably changed.
My total weekly hrs is about 10, which is a significant increase from previously.
My plan is to start the 4x8 min intervals twice a week, and continue polarized for another 6 wks, then move into SSB1 mid volume, substituting some of the workouts with 3 hr endurance rides. I’m also going to do a rest week every three weeks that will include a couple or 3 3 hr endurance rides. Currently 65 years old.
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Awesome report! When you start into the 4x8 Sets they will feel great. When complete!
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New to the forum, my 2 cents on polarized training. I like the idea, but disagree on Seiler’s execution. In general, I complete 1-2 “high Intensity” interval type sessions per week. All other sessions are base intensity (well below LT) or recovery. Depending on the phase of training, High intensity could include sweet spot all the way up to Neuromuscular power.
Seiler’s 4, 6, or 8m intervals are not really at the “polar end” of the spectrum and from a specificity standpoint, targets steady state VO2max. As a CX/MTB racer I just can’t convince myself that these are the core of my high intensity training once every 7 days. I think they are great for triathletes, TT’rs, and Nordic skiers (which I believe is where all this started), and targeting VO2max at some phase of training.
On the other hand, he is a super smart guy and has a ton of research. For now I am going with general logic, and the “get what you train for” rule.
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What does a taper look like in polarised training?
I remember Seiler recommending to lower intensity further on easy days, and increase intensity on hard days. So if I have been doing hard sessions by accumulating time around 90% MHR, with more subthreshold, event specific training in recent weeks, and have just built up a significant overload in the past 10 days, what does a taper look like in the 2 weeks before my 160 km hilly gran fondo? I suppose it’s going to be same frequency of rides, with easy days staying below 70 % MHR, but what about the hard days?–sustain the 90% MHR intensity, or increase it?
Seiler spoke of doing a block of higher intensity intervals if events demand such efforts. He talked at 6x 100" efforts at 100% of pVO2 max. I generally do 6-8 2-min intervals full gas and I have seen improvements.
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Making progress. 4 x 8 outside today on my favorite loop. Work to Recovery about 1:1 based on how the roads were plotted and there are a couple 90 deg turns with traffic control.
FTP still set at 230w and today had bouts of 252, 258, 255, 252 with good HR response. RPE was 6-7.
Likely best workout of the year. I should be nailing that second week of December peak we all shoot for (LOL LOL)
Chart (Yellow is 250w and red is 150 bpm or 88% of max)
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Fresh Seiler presentation - - not sure if there’s anything new, but always interesting.
https://lecturecapture.brookes.ac.uk/Mediasite/Play/8c0f98ec83c44ec6aa98ca199d2defb51d
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Great summary and progress. What was Coach Chad’s V02 Max progression?
"I also did one VO2 max workout/week going through the VO2 Max progression that Coach Chad had put forth. "