So, what would be the physical/physiological/mental (whatever) benefit of 4hrs rides?
Because, I kept listening everywhere that they are a must. That there are some changes that only happens in those rides, and I’m wondering what that would be?
There are no specific adaptations that result only from exercising for a long time at a lower intensity. Such rides are “necessary” only in the sense that you have to train many hours per week to achieve “saturation”.*
*And to condition ancillary muscles such as those in the neck if your event will have you on the bike for a long time.
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What do you mean by “achieving saturation”.
Thanks
Achieving the limits of adaptation.
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Good to know, thanks for sharing.
To sum up: One needs/wants achieve a certain level of fatigue to improve fitness for any given reason. Doing this based on HIIT could be too much taxing and the recovery time wouldn’t be enough to allow that person does another session. So a LI session would serve as a “fitting”, as it is usually easy to recover and repeat.
TL;DR: LO = repeatability
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It’s not about fatigue.
It’s also not strictly about volume. Intensity matters as well.
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That is awesome. I am honored to have been corrected by The Cog.
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What does this imply in regards to the importance of a long endurance run or ride?
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That it needs to be considered in context.
Long workouts aren’t magical, but you have to get a big enough “dose” of the training “drug” somehow, and exercising for a long time periodically is one way of accomplishing that goal.
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It’s pretty clear for mct4.
It’s less clear for mct1, which are present predominantly within oxidative muscles. Would mct1 improve by training more these oxidative fibers, or would it improve more training with a high gradient (high lactate in blood)?
MCT1 generally doesn’t change much with training, but at least one study has shown that its expression is enhanced by lactate administration following exercise. That would argue in favor of your second hypothesis.
On the 1x2 vs. 2x1 topic, I have transitioned over the years to fewer but longer rides each week and it’s resulted in performance gains for the type of racing I do (mostly longer gravel and marathon MTB).
I don’t think there is anything magical from a physiological standpoint to loading up the stress in fewer rides, but here are some anecdotal advantages that I believe in -
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Fewer training days gives me more rest days to help with mental and physical recovery. I average over 10 hours per week for the year and will peak at 15+ hours, but I focus on Tues/Thurs/Sat as the bulk of my volume (and sometimes the only days I train), I come into those days relatively fresh and can do high quality work. I’ll work in easy/short/fun rides on the other days, weight training, core work, etc., but everything I do is designed around maximizing readiness for the 3 main days.
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With my events being longer, I feel that long days on the bike are the best way to prepare my endurance, nutrition, holding good aero position, body strength for rough terrain, etc. While I know there are folks who can be competitive in 5-10+ hour races by building a big engine on short training sessions, it takes more than an aerobic engine to be competitive. Personally, I need long training days to be able to push big watts 5+ hours into a race. I don’t really know or care if that is a mental or physical thing, but it’s a thing for me.
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I just enjoy big/long/hard rides. Outside is great, but I’ll also do long stuff on the trainer (zwift BMTR century on saturday mornings is fun when the weather sucks). It also seems a bit inefficient from a time perspective to get ready for a ride (and clean up after) and only ride for an hour.
Again, I’m not sure this answer whether 1x2 or 2x1 is any different or better from a physiology/science standpoint, but my experience is that loading the volume into fewer days results in a performance increase for me in longer races.
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Good info, and I agree with your findings. I think 3x long days is likely better than 6x short days in terms of building endurance and fatigue resistance. I do think one long day a week with say 3-5 shorter days can be effective, but two is better than one, and three is better than two. The main issue is most people that work regular hours can’t fit in two or three days of 4+ hours, and in that case doing more frequency is still much better than doing nothing.
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In the last podcast (452) Keegan said he rarely does a ride under three hours. For most of us non-pros, that is probably not going to be possible with families, jobs and other responsibilities. As you said, for those with “normal” schedules, daily rides with a “long” endurance ride on the weekend is most ideal from a training and scheduling perspective (1>0). Ultimately, consistency is a piece of the puzzle… and there’s a reason we don’t see the top of the sport only train 3 days a week.
It does bring up a long running debate of “doubles vs. singles.” Personally I did a lot of doubles when training in college, then transitioned to longer singles once I got a job after college. It became a lot of extra stress, reduced sleep and just wasn’t sustainable (or rather wasn’t as productive). I don’t view one as being “better” than the other, but rather the doubles was a stepping stone that helped me adapt to the longer duration. Regardless of how you get it, more volume is better than less. Until it isn’t.
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The point with doubles for me is that I can fit 45min 6AM, and 1:00 afternoon.
It’s a win win for me as I’m not a big fan of indoor trainer, so short rides/workouts help. Also, more family time as it’s only 1hr of workout.
Weekend I fatbike outside for 2/3 hrs. Depending on snow conditions and how cold it is (I know, there’s lots of good clothes, but riding at -20C is complicated, even water is a problem).
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Genuinely curious how this plays into recovery?
Surprisingly well.
Just bear in mind that I’m not putting to much intensity in those days. Something like a short tempo/SST on the morning and a zwift group ride (around 2,6/2,9w/kg) afternoon.