[quote=“bbarrera, post:500, topic:3962, full:true”]You can raise FTP via sweet spot just by lowering glycolytic capacity.
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I am still trying to figure out how that is supposed to work. I mean, lots of people repeat it, but how does reducing the ability to produce ATP allow you to generate a higher power output at FTP? Wouldn’t it have the opposite effect?
I suppose you could argue that making less lactic acid would prevent it from causing fatigue, but is lactic acid really a cause of fatigue when the exercise can be performed for up to one hour?
if the glycolytic system produces more lactate than aerobic system can consume, then excess hydrogen will accumulate and cause an acidic condition in muscles. That will slow you down. In this situation, reducing glycolytic capacity will better match lactate production and consumption, allowing you to generate more power.
Now if your glycolytic system gets too weak, then it can’t provide enough lactate to the aerobic system. That forces your aerobic system to use more fat, which metabolizes slower than carbs/lactate. And that will slow you down.
So the moral of the story is that to achieve highest threshold power, you need a proper balance between glycolytic energy system and your aerobic energy system.
I recently completed a little over a 12 week block of Polarized Training with Seiler Type Intervals 5 sets of 4x8 min at 107% of FTP. (Adjusted intensity up weekly to stay within target heart rate ranges.) This was combined with adding endurance rides and some XC Skiing aimed at keeping a 80/20 to 90/10 split. I wasn’t perfect but tried to perform it closely. Most skiing was done with a goal in mind to either stay in a polarized zone 1 or 3.
My results surprised me and have sold me on the polarized approach. Initial ramp test put me at 347. Final ramp test had me at 369. That’s 7 watts higher than I’ve ever been. I suspected 362 should of been in reach seeing I’d been there before but didn’t think it would come as quick. During the training I’m making a conscious effort to watch heart rate and Intervals.ICU has been a huge help with this. I have to remind myself that not all interval sessions need to be “Epic”. Seiler mentions this in his talks.
I perform endurance rides on the trainer too, up to 3 Hours(Ptarmigan) keeping most in the .63-.68 IF range and then adjust slightly based on heartrate. It’s been fun to watch the power come while heartrate stays consistent over time. Proof that fitness is improving… This winter a friend let me borrow his fatbike to try a local race and I placed 2nd out of 60 or so. I used that race as my weekly “hard” session and it worked great.
In the end this method kind of makes me laugh because its pretty darn simple. I used to toil over spreadsheets making sure weekly ramp rates were perfect and TSS was where it needed to be. Don’t get me wrong there is still some of that but not as much. I typically hung around the 7-8 Hour mark on the bike and the XC Skiing was in the 1-3 hour range. This really cleared my head and was super enjoyable.
I’m two weeks into another block and can see things still trending up.
Yes, but how much change in pH actually occurs during prolonged exercise at FTP?
It clearly isn’t nearly as much as might take place during shorter, higher intensity, but still primarily aerobic efforts, and changes in pH aren’t considered a major cause of fatigue there. For example, bicarbonate loading only seems to work during events lasting a few minutes.
I wonder if this is a case of people conflating coincidence with cause-and-effect?
ETA: The whole “your glycolytic system is too weak” argument also doesn’t really make sense to me. Cardiac muscle (which I have studied), for example, has a much lower glycolytic capacity than skeletal muscle, but can sustain much higher power outputs, which during stress are fueled almost entirely by carbohydrate.
Thanks, I’ve listened to that podcast. It doesn’t really answer my questions, at least on a mechanistic level, just makes a bunch of assertions. Too many biochemistry courses under my belt, I guess!
less than when I shock my pool with four gallons of liquid chlorine? no idea The 1980s era Mader model explains metabolic function and response to endurance sports activities and training. It does such a good enough job at explaining things that Jan Olbrecht used it to train swimmers to international championships, and he created a mathematical model to support training athletes to greatness. And then Sebastian Weber came along and did the same for cyclists and triathletes. Go read lactate.com or buy Olbrecht’s Science of Winning book.
Did mostly 5 sets at 8 minutes early in the week (Monday or Tuesday)then if I was feeling good occasionally did three sets of 13 x 30/15s @130% later in the week(Thursday or Friday). Im about 41 years old so just listened to my body and didn’t push it if I wasn’t feeling it. I’ve done high volume sweet spot plans before and they went well but high volume build broke me.
I think the three hour endurance trainer rides on the weekend were very beneficial too.
To me this is sustainable and I really enjoy it. The endurance rides give me time before work to listen to some motivating audiobooks and put me in a good frame of mind.
Keep in mind weight loss was never a goal in this time frame. I eat a lot of food and let my weight climb to 200lbs over the winter. If I drop too much weight I freeze my but off with our winter time temps. I’ll let the weight come of naturally as our temps warm up.
My goal is just to get faster on 10-20 minute climbs and stay longer with faster riders - basically increasing threshold power.
Last year was a polarized base and then the rest of the year was more organic intervals - group rides / strava segments. I did go from 230ish FTP to 275 and then was going even stronger in January (untested) so maybe FTP went even higher.
This year I got base in earlier and now I’m attempting to do a Seiler 4x8 build block. I’m still experimenting. I’m doing the intervals outside and often on gravel so they have been coming in at 9min or 10 min. And I’ve been able to do three. They should still be above threshold so I don’t think an extra minute or two at the intensity would make a huge difference in outcome.
This week will be a rest week. I should probably test FTP and then start again with the intevals and up it to four intervals.
The intervals have been going well. They were a little intimidating at first but I’m kind of enjoying them now.
FTP ~ 4.7-5 W/kg (depending on time of year … weight!)
2times 4x8min, 2min RI per week
remainder strictly below LT1 (lab measuered)
Unfortunately non-responder, neither CP6 nor CP30 improved beyond the powermeter’s error margin. No change in LT1/VT1 (lab tested). Furthermore, was clearly lacking fatigue resistance in longer races.
Wow @AJS914 you made great improvements! Nice job! You’re so right. The 8 minute jobs are a little intimidating initially but grow on you with time. 30/15s are proving to be my new nemesis.
Keep up the great work and please stay in touch with your results.
First of all I had to accept that I won’t get closer to 5W/kg anymore. I may be able to hit it on a good day but given my age and “athletic” history that’s probably my limit. Similar for shorter stuff. Makes more sense to work on fatigue resistance and repeatibility. And only limit the losses in the max watt department.
This winter was basically Mark Allen style base building:
generally you’ll be doing two tempo workouts, two endurance sessions, and two recovery jaunts, taking one total-rest day per week.
similar with initial build phase, Mark Allen style:
you’ll shift into the anaerobic phase. You still follow the same core workouts, albeit gradually reducing their duration, but now you’ll drop one tempo session and one recovery effort for two speed-building sessions
However, a key change is that I try to follow this “a little step by step”. Based on Filliol & co and the pro Strava hacks. For me this basically turns out into a schedule similar to the “fragile” athlete template in the “well built triathlete” book. For more I’m probably to old.
I wanted to change things with race season starting but all my March races got cancelled. And it seems April will be the same. And perhaps even after that. Not sure how to address this.
migth be helpful to add in some anaerobic intervals, maybe once every week or two, even in the base endurance periods.
One thing i learned recently is that it takes a certain amount of anaerobic capacity to get your power high enough to tap the power level that eventually elicits vo2max, and that these muscles can atrophy if not used often enough. Becomes more important as we age (in the face of literally decades of endurance training).
this is something I did. Did a VO2max session every 7-10days,
Not sure this made any difference, though. What made a striking differnce was riding endurance more intense and those tempo sesssions. Watt at heart rate - the only sort of objective measure I have for this - has risen quite a lot in those 4 months. Really takes an effort to bring heart rate up now.
no idea 
The 1980s era Mader model explains metabolic function and response to endurance sports activities and training. It does such a good enough job at explaining things that Jan Olbrecht used it to train swimmers to international championships, and he created a mathematical model to support training athletes to greatness. And then Sebastian Weber came along and did the same for cyclists and triathletes. Go read 
