You had me until the no tv part 
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A gross over simplification but I got the feeling listening to the podcast that I was listening to the opinions of 2 under employed and clueless 20 somethings who love bike riding and can ride outside whenever they want finding it impossible to fathom why a 50 year old lawyer who works 12 hours a day and lives somewhere where he doesnāt see daylight for 6 months a year might find it appealing to drop what amounts to less than a weekās wages on a Peloton or Wahoo indoor bike. Sure, bopping around Boulder on bikes during the day would be sweet but not many of us have that option!
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Your comments about Peloton remind me about the reaction Jim Foley, the Peloton founder received and talks about in a public radio podcast called āHow I Built Thisā when he tried to get funding in the early days of his company from so called the best venture capitalists here in silicon valley: āThereās two types of biking out here, John: mountain biking and road bikingā Live Episode! Peloton: John Foley : NPR
Peloton is preparing to go public . . . at an estimated valuation of $8-10 Billion! Iād suggest taking a look at their digital offering as well PelotonĀ® | Exercise Bike With Indoor Cycling Classes Streamed Live & On-Demand
I think you may be underestimating whatās taking place and the impact it is having and perhaps asking yourself the question: āDo I really believe all 1/2 million Peloton users (and growing fast) will never consider cycling (or running) outdoors as a result of their fun and fitness gains indoors?ā . . . and vice versa (you might be surprised at the mutually supportive reverse trend as well).
N=1 but my SO started inside on TrainerRoad with a smart trainer after years of spin class and now she wants to do a triathlon. She had never expressed an interest before.
The indoor-> outdoor transition can happen. Whether it will in larger numbers is obviously a different question.
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i had a long chat with a friend who has a Peloton. Sheās a non cyclist and has no interest in riding a bike but loves the spin bike workouts. Her primary activity is running. Sheās definitely in the late middle age ājoggerā class but sheās training for a half marathon and was raving about the Peloton Digital app. Peloton Digital has RPE guided running interval workouts you can do outside. Sheās discovered structured interval training (although I donāt think she realizes it) and is in love, and improving. Peloton Digital also has yoga classes and guided meditation. This is not just a spin bike company.
Iām not interested in any of that stuff or spin bikes but the market they are tapping into is huge, way bigger then the micro indoor serious cycling training world we are all in.
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Besides the transition to serious cycling, I can also see a significant portion of bikeless Peloton users deciding it would be fun to get a āride to brunchā bike for little weekend adventures. For most of the cycling industryās history everyone had a bike and the casual around town bike was their bread and butter. Indoor/spin bike riding could rekindle that market.
I donāt think that there will never be a Peleton user who buys a bicycle to ride outside. Hell, one of the things that Peleton offers is leaderboards where people can compete - if you are competitive on an exercise bike then that sort of thing can transition to competing on other bikes. However, I suspect thatās going to be a small proportion, and the chances are they will be doing some sort of competition with a low barrier to participation (eg a sprint tri) rather than a crit.
And running outdoors clearly has a lower barrier to entry than bike racing. There were a lot of joggers before Peleton came into existence. I donāt know what the spin class equivalent is on a treadmill, but I would lay money that a vastly higher percentage of people who buy treadmills have tried running outside than spin bike users cycling outside. If only from the perceived safety and lack of equipment angle.
Caley Fretz is in his late 20s, but James Huang has been reporting on bikes since the early 2000s and is married with kids. Neal Rodgers is in his 40s. They are all bike journalists based in Boulder, so they get to ride (and write about) bikes for a living - of course their perspective might be different from a 9-5 office worker, but calling them clueless 20 somethings is harsh.
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I know who they all are. And Iāve listened to enough of their podcasts that I am quite confident that if they lived in Michigan with me and could not do lunch rides, theyād fall in love with Zwift They just sounded a little whiny last week!
I got the impression that a big part of their take was based on the fact that Euro Bike sounded pretty boring this year for bike geeks and bike journalists. Iām sure for serious bike journalists, the only thing more boring than riding indoors is writing about riding indoors.
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I can only comment on the theme since Iām not sure I have interest in listening/reading but I can say that Iāve had a very difficult time with almost any structured rides lately, inside or outside. I have to say Iām very thankful for the ability to push workouts outside and that has made longer interval type of work much more palatable.
The plus for indoors:
crazy efficient
very safe
easier to test fitness with any protocol
I can listen to music / watch races
negatives for indoors:
it will never check the āsoulā box, itās boring.
itās boring
a lot of people canāt mentally push themselves as deep indoors, Iām definitely one of them.
itās boring
itās hard for my personality type to ālook forwardā to indoor work, I donāt enjoy the process of training as much
outdoors plus:
itās the reason we do it, it can check ALL the boxes
itās FUN
wind across your body, scenery
I can go waaaay deeper on an outdoor training ride
itās FUN
exploring new terrain
bike handling skills! ie learning to pedal on off road terrain, turning, pumping
itās FUN
outdoor cons:
Canāt always do it year round in most places
apparently weāre ALL GOING TO DIE doing it
very hard/impossible to do complicated workouts
negative distractions like drivers, bad roads, traffic lights
positive distractions like scenery and trail heads that distract from the tasks at hand
For me: Iāll keep the trainer for mostly winter riding and use it sparingly throughout the rest of the year. Itās gotta be a process that I enjoy so riding mostly outside and maintaining fitness might just be good enough for me and my goals. I need to like bikes at the end of this!
Yeah, if you live in Boulder you are going to have a biased view on these things. Boulder has to be the most outdoorsy town in the world.
So isnāt this all just case of people who live in an urban sprawl not being understood by people who do not? If we all had the nice roads/trails and time to get to them then we would all obviously prefer riding outdoors. Those who live in urban sprawls where itās literally 30km or more in any direction of grids of asphalt, stop lights and congested traffic need the indoor stuff to compete with the people who actually have driveways.
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For some inside riding is the destination, and outside isnāt even a consideration. Since thatās a cycling podcast, theyāre going to be slightly jaded about it.
The rhetoric of social media has injected a lot of fear into outdoor riding, and its not just talk, I could probably binge watch bicycle crashes for 24 hours, including a few fatalities.
Iām not saying its not dangerous, but I do think its overstated.
Great list of positives/negatives!
When I cut back on spin classes and started training outside, my spin instructor sent this text!
@mcneese.chad is that how it works in Montana? 
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In my area, you can run into black bears, and even the odd moose or two up in the Red Lodge mountain area. We even get the odd mountain lion prowling around our outer limit homes and trails.
Iāve seen turkeys and deer, but no predators thankfully 
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Ha ha, thanks. Back to one of your earlier points, the social aspect is easy to forget for those of us in urban areas with a lot of cyclists. And even though I see a core group of cyclists on Wed group ride, my interest in this hobby/sport translates into spending time on this forum. Its the same for other hobbies, one of the great things about the Internet is we can engage with other like-minded people anytime and anywhere.
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Yes, these perspectives are highly individual and dependent on our local options. I am rather remote overall compared to many others. Billings is the largest city in MT, and we have a decent number of cyclists. But the overall access to group rides and racing in particular are slim.
For racing, I can get in a mix of gravel, MTB, road and duathlon races in the season. I did about 2 of each this year with some decent traveling required to do so. The access to fast paced group rides and races on something like Zwift is essentially endless. The races are more somewhat limited to shorter duration and higher intensity along the lines of crits combined with TTās. But there are also a few longer and more variable events along the lines of longer road races. Overall, this type of racing access is a resource for competition that is not matched in many places.
I am a fringe participant with the ODZ group, but those guys have cultivated a following of steady rider count in their events each week and the guys are as good of friends as any that meet IRL. They even host a winter camp in Arizona each year to get some actual face time.
These are likely the more extreme end, but I know there are more āfitnessā based groups on Zwift with repeat riders each week and they really become friends with solid ties. The fact it originates via electrons shouldnāt seem like a detraction as it was hinted at.
For people with restricted schedules or poor weather options like so many of us, these apps can serve as outlets and connections that maintain our sanity and even grow our relationships. I am not saying that this replaces the real soul and ultimate enjoyment of true outside riding.
But the guys barely accepted that some people could actually ENJOY inside riding. Itās not necessarily from the fun of rolling on a fake bike, but it comes from the thrill of competition, the connection to others with similar interest, and any combination of it. Zwift hasnāt gained itās place without people actually enjoying their time on their. I think that point was all but missed in the article and podcast.
Yes, some people do like itā¦ that is OKā¦ and they arenāt crazy for thinking so. Especially since many still take that fitness with them for outside. But if someone wants to be an indoor specialist, more power to them. Same difference for those on the spin bike world. More fit people = winning to me.
I cut my athletic teeth on competitive swimming. 2 to 4 hours a day, 6 days a weeks spent going back and forth in a 25 yd pool with your head under water makes an hour on the trainer seem positively stimulating! I get bored after while on the trainer but it is never ever the worst thing Iāve done . . . .
In the end, I ride for fitness, whether its race fitness now or, eventually, just to avoid a heart attack. How I do that is just a matter of choosing the right tool for the particular day. I love riding outside but at some point Iām not going to be able to hang on the group rides any more and I can totally see myself riding off into the sunset in my 80ās indoors exclusively doing 30 minute rides on Zwift . . . . I donāt mind indoor fitness riding. (Or, alluding to the 2nd part of the podcast, I can also totally see spending my old age āassistingā the younger folks on the group rides by taking long pulls on my E- bike . . . )
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didnāt listen to the podcast. The point of the article from where I sit is that traditional companies (Elite, Stages, Tacx, Wattbike, Wahoo) are a bit tone def on marketing message. What I got from the article, paraphrasing and adding my own color commentary: Peloton = best cardio on the planet; Zwift = fun is fast; and all the other indoor players are seemingly chasing breadcrumbs falling off Pelotonās table and without a strong message (selling specs).
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From the amount of heated discussion, Iād say CyclingTips is doing their job well.
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I love people who talk crap about riding/training inside and instead spend their winters in 3 layers of gear cruising at a snails pace. Certainly shut them all up this Spring 
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