Spencer +2 fail

No.

Unless your HR dropped when you stood up, which is unlikely, you accomplished the goal of the workout.

I did Spencer +2 last night, was pretty brutal, the last half of the last interval I found my cadence dropping to 50-60 rpm, had to dig deep to get it back up, then the last 15 seconds I was only just turning my legs :smiley: was relieved to finish it!!

Being over 60, Iā€™ve always had trouble with Spencer, so today I replaced Spencer +2 it with a custom workout I named Mills +15s. Using the Workout Creator I increased each of Millsā€™ 9 intervals by 15 seconds to 2m 15s. I reduced the post-warmup recovery to 3m 15s (formerly 3m 30s) and the long recoveries between sets to 5m 30s (formerly 6m). Extending the warm down by 4 minutes gave me a 1h 4m workout with a TSS of 85 and an IF of 0.89. More work than Mills (a week ago) and much more do-able than Spencer +2 with its TSS of 84 and IF 0.92.

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Everything needs to be ā€œonā€ for Spencer +2, so donā€™t feel bad for the failā€¦itā€™s likely not your best day. Hydration, rest, nutrition, all help with the mental piece. If I know that for me, if the hydration and rest are on point, I am stronger mentally and can push myself to that very tough spot of oxygen debt. Thatā€™s the hardest part for me - I feel like I am suffocating 2:50 and want to stop so bad. I try to put my mind somewhere else (holding on the back of the group and not getting dropped, for instance). Keep going, another day youā€™ll probably nail it.

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Interesting discussion - I find VO2 workouts ā€˜easierā€™ than Threshold (but still hard). This is especially so if I keep my cadence below 90 (my natural cadence is probably 75 and I find it easier to hit higher power at these cadences rather than higher cadences - anyone else find that??).

Anyway - one thing I do find is that there is a VERY big step up from Mills to Spencer +2 with the former only requiring 45s at 120% (and 75s at 110%) and the latter requiring a full 3 minutes. Thatā€™s a big jump for a 47 year old :slight_smile: - anyone else struggle with this?

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Yes. Iā€™m not 47, I love VO2 yet Iā€™m in complete agreement with you. Thatā€™s why I swap out Mills for something from the Monadnock family. I find it preps me for whatā€™s to come.

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I with yaā€¦ I follow the plan pretty close and more often than not I get discouraged. Did Baird +6 Today and got through first set 120%@90s. Was exhausted so I decreased the overall effort by 5% got through next set. Then upped the 3rd to 97% got through 4 and failed the last one, I got through the last block as well. Seems as though as soon as I get to a certain point I break. Seems like everyone posts about FTP increases and getting through all the workouts where it seems like I struggle a lot of the time. Wish I knew the answer or at least know I am not wasting my time as my last increase in FTP was 1.6% from 250 to 252 which was also disheartening mentally as I figured id do betterā€¦

I think Spencer+2 burns to many mental matches that I would want to save for races (well normally!). I use Mills+1 and Bluebell+1 a lot - when I need longer I use Dade-1 and Dade+1 (not Dade as that has some really high spikes which wouldnā€™t help me as a tt rider). You donā€™t have to do all the sessions as stated you can use common sense to get compliance up - I also never do Leconte either - use something like Fang Mountain, Carpathian Peak or Avalanche spire+3ā€¦I donā€™t want to leave my best efforts on the turbo I want them when I have a number on. When I ran I was always told that with intervals when you finish you should be able to do one more if you HAD to - never found that with Spencer or Leconte. :upside_down_face:

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Iā€™m on week 5 of SSB 2 (mid), and Spencer +2 kicked my ass yesterday (Tuesday). Disappointing because all thru this block Iā€™d nailed everything to this point. I got thru 4 full intervals and about half of the 5th before I simply could not continue any more, just gasping for air AND legs were done as well. But maybe being 57 yrs old is part of that equation. And I did notice that the Tallac +3 that I did 2 days prior left my legs much more tired than normal. So perhaps I needed another recovery day between those 2 workouts. I think Iā€™m going to replace Sundayā€™s Wright Peak -1 with something fairly easy and get a head start on my much needed recovery week.

Sounds like similar experience to mine ,only with Elephants+4. I managed 4 of the 6 before I struggled on the 5th and the erg mode sent me down the spiral of death. It happened a few times and I completed #5 and 6 but obviously my legs were finished. Im 64, but I think my age has nothing to do with this . It is more about my lack of endurance to sustain this level for long periods ie 6 minutes on each interval with shortish recovery. In your case I think being 57 yrs old has nothing to do with this (unless you have an injury/illness etc youve not mentioned on here). You mention your legs were tired. Yes definitely an extra easy day should help, or maybe it is just a matter of continuing to build on your weaknesses but certainly donā€™t look upon it as a failure (hate the word) , but information from which you can learn and develop

My notes on Elephants +4 from last year: ā€œ(Scrap the elephants, this is 6 pigs.) Tried 2 days of rest before this, turning it down by 5%, caffeine gel. I wish there were some easier workouts to prepare me for this.ā€

If I have an intimidating workout on my calendar, I find it useful to look at my notes from the previous times Iā€™ve ridden it by clicking on the ā€œMy Ridesā€ tab. After a workout failure, you can click the ā€œAll Ridesā€ tab to console yourself with how many others also failed.

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Glad someone else has found it hard too!
Iā€™ll check out that option, as might cheer me up a bit to know others struggle!

Well Iā€™m curious if it is better than Kaiser, as Kaiser is the 6x3 minutes at 120%, but with 3 minute rests instead of 4.

It also depends on what they (tr data miners) consider as failing.

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I did this workout today - had to lower intensity as well. How do you breath during the intervals? Tried longer breaths but hurted so much I started puffing more or less automatically.

survival mode, mate.
try to breath from your belly, not starting with your chest.

this workout is hard.

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Big, deep breaths from the belly. Try to control your breathing. If you start to hiperventilate, short, shallow breaths - it is not in favour of these vo2 max gains. My humble advice is to do the workouts in reaistance/level mode and you can control the power. It is a lot better to lower the power by the end but breath steadily and deeply. With these 3 min intervals with constant power the last minute is the most important part because it is where you truly stimulate your Vo2 max.

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Huhā€¦I had not thought of this. Is that common practice for VO2 work? The last third or so of these workouts it seems like Iā€™m on the ragged edge of starting the slow cadence death spiral at the end of every intervalā€¦

As Vo2 max Is not a power target but rather the state the most important part is to spend there as much time as possible. By regulating the power you will be able to hold the state. And you want to elicit VO2 max as fast as you can. So constant power intervals are ok but hard start intervals works a lot better and you can do longer intervals by lowering the power but holding the state.

Here is nice article that will explain it a lot better.

common practice is survival mode. trying not to tension anything in order not to lose any energy. breathing from the belly. itā€™s easy to write when typing on a laptop. again, once you are the moment, itā€™s pure survival :smiley:

For real. I finished the second half of build with Tom +2 last Saturday. Starting after the second set I spent the remaining ~70 minutes thinking, on repeat, ā€œOMG I canā€™t do this. Dude plus just spare your soul and live to see another day.ā€ until finally it switched to ā€œOMG how did I finish that, RIP to my soul.ā€

And now Iā€™m in rest week eating food and spinning my lifeless legs in Z2 :slight_smile:, foolishly forgetting what that workout felt likeā€¦ until next time.

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