Music is key. I had Lamarck today (4x10 at FTP, short 2 minute recoveries), so I pulled out my ramp test play list and was able to push through.
I’ll also second the idea of TrainerRoad + Zwift. I do that regularly. The only catch is when you get to the top of a mountain with 2 more minutes to go in an interval. Going through the KOM finish line, it’s really tough to tell your brain that this does NOT mean that you get to back off and recover. I ran through a finish line with very bad timing during a ramp test. Disaster. I had to repeat the ramp the next day for an accurate result.
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100% agree. This is one of the reasons I stopped using Zwift as a workout tool and decided to stick to TR when I need a specific session.
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Link TR to Strava, that way if you fail the workout everyone sees it! 
That’s sometimes motivation enough for me. Seriously though, get some good music on, lots of fluid and push yourself.
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I want to list what I do when I have a brutal threshold-y or long sweet spot workout the next day that I’m scared of.
- Extra carbs the day before. My New Years resolution was to eat more food. I’ve been doing it and losing body fat. I know it’s weird, but I’ve been training more too. I like to do giant bowls of whole grains right before bed. I really like Bob’s Redmill high fiber cereal with lots of cinnamon and raisins in it.
- If it’s an early ride (I can’t do a full meal more than 3 hours before the ride) I do a slice of Ezekiel raisin bread toast with honey for every 30 minutes of the ride right before I get on.
- If it’s more than 3 hours I do another big whole grain breakfast
- I do a gel 10-20 minutes before I ride, Then fuel on the ride between 60-100g carbs per hour.
- I put on cycling videos in the background but I really don’t pay attention to them. I occasionally glance at them.
- I like to be out of ERG mode in and in resistance mode. I find it engages me better.
- I get the right songs. Even in my “ride” playlist there are songs that don’t do it the same way as other songs. Sometimes when it’s really hard I switch to my “I always bang out lots of work” song.
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How important is it to stay above 85 rpm? I have Lamarck today and I have been having to back pedal/stop in previous threshold efforts. I feel like my normal cadence is 90+, and usually have no problems doing 100+ (for reference my previous workout was spencer +2 which is 6 x 3min 120% vo2max and I maintained 100+ for all intervals) but when I start doing longer threshold my cadence drops quickly after a couple of minutes and I can never raise it. I can usually keep the pedals turning in erg mode, but my cadence is between 70-80. Even though I can finish the threshold interval on target, my cadence is slow and this it seems counter productive.
I had to stop doing that. I don’t find watching things for hard efforts helps me so I thought having a bike race on in the background that I can glance at without paying attention would be the solution.
Found it really hard to not lean into turns when riders were descending and you get that motorcycle camera perspective right behind them. And I don’t have a rocker plate!
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There is no easy answer, and you have to consider what you really need. Likely relative to your training history, riding history, and training goals. Lower cadences are fine in many cases and even desirable.
But lower cadence and higher forces (like your Threshold) can stress joints to a large degree. Unless you have taken appropriate measure to prepare your body, you can experience pain or injury from using lower cadences.
Keep in mind your needs outside. Do you need to, or do you regularly experience low cadence at these types of efforts? If so, then maybe they are fine. If not, you may be “training” in undesirable ways. You want to CHOOSE to work low cadence, not have it FORCED upon you from lack of strength/endurance.
The decreasing cadence may well be a sign of insufficient muscular strength endurance. It is likely something that shows where you can focus on for improvement. I might suggest taking a back pedal once you get down to lower cadences. Give yourself a chance to rebound and jump back to a “good” cadence for you and your goals. Allowing yourself to be dragged down to a cadence in a sheer effort to complete an interval may lead to bad habits or injury.
My favorite ways to break up long intervals are mixing hand position like some have mentioned (makes the time on the tops and even the hoods feel like a break) and mixing in 30 seconds of standing whenever things get really bad.
Any insight on whether the standing detracts from the quality of the interval?
So it sounds like taking a back pedal (or three) during the interval may be a better idea than trying to continue at a cadence I can’t raise.
I am pretty sure I have poor muscular strength endurance since it feels like after a little bit my cadence just drops off and I can’t bring it back up without a rest, but I end up doing that a number of times during an interval because I can only hold the cadence for a little bit before it drops again. It isn’t something that is a choice, but rather it just happens. For reference my past two threshold rides: Log In to TrainerRoad and Log In to TrainerRoad. So a short break which allows me to ride a little longer at an 85+ rpm may be better than doing the whole interval at <80rpm.
I guess I am someone who over tests on the ramp test since I generally have no problems with vo2max (I even usually increase those 1-5%) but then struggle at threshold.
- Are you standing as a “crutch” to nurse through a tough interval?
- Are you standing since you also do that outside in similar efforts?
- Are you standing for possible comfort breaks?
Yes to all three. I don’t know if I’d use the word “crutch” but it definitely helps get through the interval. I do stand outside, I’m not training for a time trial or anything. And it definitely helps with comfort.
Then you are probably fine. The point I see it being a problem is when someone does something particularly uncharacteristic for their needs and general usage. Things outside of the norm are not desired unless selected for specific improvement.
So I did my Lamarck workout a little bit ago, and the results are… unexpected: Log In to TrainerRoad
Beyond just having a good day I have a theory. I have had a 2018 Kickr that had been having severe noise and vibration. I continued to ride it since it still adjusted power, it was just annoying (and I wanted to wait to see if they would address the vibration issue [they have not]). However I noticed that when I would stop pedaling it would go from full speed to stopped in about 5 seconds (even after multiple spin downs). I finally broke down, opened a ticket, and got a new one. Today was my first threshold ride on the new Kickr (I did a 6x3min vo2max workout yesterday).
It felt surprisingly easy. I even bumped the intensity up a few %, did an extra interval above ftp, and maintained a >90rpm cadence the whole time. I’m guessing the busted trainer was causing unnecessary resistance, and explains why for the past few weeks I didn’t feel like I could hit power I used to be able to, and getting completely discouraged with sweetspot and threshold. From this ride it seems like I may not have as weak a muscular endurance as I thought, and the busted trainer may have actually made me stronger for having pushed through the previous workouts. Looks like I may have a new ftp in the future.
On a side note, I will say that the tip for surviving these thresholds by changing position (tops, hoods, drops) every 1/2 mins really helped. Did it the whole way through and it made it feel like the minutes went by quicker.
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Wow! You should totally retest. I think you’re in for a nice surprise! Well maybe now it won’t be a surprise…
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For those that have done Mount Goode or 3x15 @ threshold/just below, what HR did you see during?
I listen to music too and keep my eyes closed whilst counting to 20.
Once I get to 20 I open my eyes, count to 20 again and repeat the cycle haha!
Sometimes I alternative with a mantra “this is where we live” in relation to the sensations I’m experiencing.
Thing with long efforts like that is that you get to a certain level of suckiness and it kinda stay there without getting better or worse.
This is where we live!
The things we do to ride bikes a bit faster huh!!
Highly dependant on many factors but with something so short as 3x15 my HR stays below of my LTHR at the end of the interval.
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Thanks, that’s good to know.
I know HR is affected by lots of factors but I find mine to be pretty consistent. I’m planning a 3x15 on the turbo later but haven’t tested for a while so my FTP is somewhere in a 20 watt range. Will start at the lower end and build through the session
