My first event is in late April, so I had a similar concern with doing threshold work right now. In the past, I’ve found trying to squeeze in too much threshold work can really wipe me out.
I just completed 3x30 @ 90% over the weekend and HR/RPE seemed right for sweetspot (i.e. hard but could have done another 20-30 minute interval and HR steady around 151 BPM with LTHR of 162BPM). I’m usually limited to ~75 min trainer sessions during the week but can consistently get in 2-2.5 hrs on both Sat/Sun (averaging 10-12 hrs per week).
Any tips on where to go from here? It’s been a while since I’ve done threshold intervals. Is it worth doing 1 threshold workout during the week to build out TTE around 100% and keep stretching SS on the weekend (filling the rest with Z2)? Maybe VO2 instead during the week?
How about doing a threshold/TTE test, seeing what your threshold is, and if it’s higher, start an SST progression at a higher power out to 90min or so? I don’t know if you were working based on power (i.e. 90% of FTP) or just running by HR/RPE for these sets, so that might change my answer.
If your HR is that low and steady during a 3x30, odds are pretty good you were closer to tempo, and that would indicate to me that you might have achieved an FTP bump. Not uncommon especially early in a base period like this.
Squeeze gains out of the TTE extension as you can, then hit VO2 max. Think of proper threshold training more as “race prep” or “build” than “base”, IMO.
Another option that I do with older guys and riders totally new to structure is a SST TTE extension for one workout, then MAP intervals for the other, and the rest endurance. That hybrid works well for older masters, and I have one guy in his 20s who has never done consistent structure but has gotten solid gains off of that so far. We’re rolling with that till it stops working. Knowing a little about your background, might not be ideal for you. If you’ve been structured for a while, I’d stick with block periodization.
Followed immediately by a short 2-week max aerobic phase…the goal here is to progress TiZ conservatively, so I have opted to do the same workout twice within the week. This isn’t set in stone, so if I feel good on that second workout I can adjust.
Max Aerobic Phase 1 (2 working weeks, 1 adaptation week):
2x repeating max aerobic workouts per week (Tuesday & Friday)
1x Strength Training Session per week
The rest is filled in with recovery and endurance rides erring on the side of less is more given the intensity.
After an adaptation week I’ll jump into another 4 week extensive phase with a little different structure incorporation some over/unders along with pushing TiZ out.
Extensive Threshold Phase 2 (3 working weeks, 1 adaptation week):
1x SS workout per week (Tuesday)
1x O/U workout per week (Friday)
1x Strength Training Session per week
The rest is filled in with recovery and endurance rides, and nordic skiing. Will adapt weeks as needed.
This will bring me into mid-March or right about the time good outdoor riding happens in my neck of the woods. I did something similar coming into 2021 and had some great results that season. I know that this looks like a lot, but I’m willing to make changes along the way.
A couple of reasons. Firstly, I haven’t done any sustained work in a long time and I want to see if 4-7 min intervals will help me prepare for that and secondly, I haven’t done it this way before and I’m curious to see how it goes.
I was also wondering. If I do vo2 max without sst/threshold and lot of z2 I cannot even finish 4x4. I personally need a lot of riding before vo2 to properly do the workours and see some benefits.
Never been a fan of the prepartory VO2max block longer than maybe 2 weeks. Dean Golich used to give a series of VO2 work at the start of base, but it was 2x workouts back to back for 2 weeks as a primer to Z2 work. Then it was extensive work, then full-blown VO2max training.
I’ve done that protocol before and it’s pretty good for getting you going, but it’s not really prep for sustained work. That’s always going to suck the first workout or two.
Yeah doing VO2s “off the couch” or prior to any kind of intensity is f—ing brutal. Not my preference having done it both ways.
As discussed earlier in this thread, I’m someone who needs to focus on interval duration progression. I also have more confidence knowing I can lay down big watts for a looooong time.
Big start. Have you done any kind of sustained work (tempo?) lately? 3x20 is no joke. I’d also probably keep to 2x per week. Normally when people get up to 75 or so I will even single many of them up, obviously depends on background, etc.
So I just did my first block and here’s how I did it:
3x20 3x25
4x20 3x30
2x40 2x45
I’m starting my 2nd block now and will progress to 120mins of time but my philosophy is to either build total time in zone or individual interval duration (or both in some cases)
Just editing to add I also add tempo intervals in one of my weekend rides so I ended up doing 2hrs or more of tempo work in addition to my sweet spot days. Doing it within a longer ride makes it manageable to mix in with some easier endurance
A little less than a month ago I had stretched out to 90 min TiZ. Coming off a 10 day rest period with a short lead in. It’s an ambitious start (and I’m aware of it), but I’m not coming from nothing.
I didn’t love putting three workouts in week 2—it was a necessity based on my work schedule. I’ve done some pretty stout progressions in the past. Last year I got out to 95 min TiZ in intervals and 105 min continuous at 85-90%. I got sidetracked by illness prior to starting the progression and my work schedule was insane (I didn’t have a circadian rhythm for a month). Year before I stretched out to 6x20 and 105 min continuous at 85-90% (and 75 min at 90-95%). My only point is to say that I’m reasonably experienced. Something I’ll definitely be focusing on is making the hard rides hard and the easy rides easy.
I’m going to have to eat so much food (my FTP is 365 so all of these workouts are well over 1000 kJ/hr). Bring on the Christmas cookies!
Y’all amuse me. I have learned from VERY hard and repeated experience failing workouts, that I can’t extend TiZ more than 10% per week, or I go straight to workout fails and a deep fatigue hole. When I complete a 3x15 @ 90%, I give careful thought to whether my next SS workout is 3x17 or whether I can be so bold as to reach for 3x18.
These cavalier increases of 30% or 40% in a week are madness. Glad to see someone can do it, and part of the reason I keep reading these forums and other things is to gradually improve my ramp rate when extending TiZ. At least now, I’m done with the years of workout fails, fatigue holes, and burnout… but damn, people, y’all are freaks. Rock on.
I don’t mean for this to come off snarky but 3x15 @90% shouldn’t be that hard, and progression beyond that would be expected. Perhaps your FTP set too high? Are there maybe other areas of fatigue and stress that are impacting?
Just a quick thought on SS vs threshold intervals. Like I laid down in my earlier post, I’ve only done sweetspot for the autumn. Two-three weeks ago I tried an FTP test and did 30min at 340W. Since then I did a few sweetspot workouts, building up to 95min SS. Yesterday I tried threshold intervals for the first time – 2x22.5min with 5min rest between– but my legs felt pretty good and I decided to try and do a single long set. Ended up doing 1x50min at 342W.
My point is that doing sweetspot definitely will also bring your TTE at FTP up. When I started doing sweetspot, my TTE at FTP of 330W was 40min. Now after a couple months sweetspot and lots of z2 and two weeks of vo2max sprinkled in, it’s 50min at 12W higher. Can’t wait to progress more on this, eventually it would be great to be able to hold FTP for 70min. Sweet spot / threshold progression is really motivating since, at least in my experience, the progression is rather quick and you see the results in almost no time. Much easier to extend that TTE than actually bring FTP watts up.
Stupid question, but better be stupid for a moment than forever.
When one is doing 60min plus in 95% neighborhood, shouldn’t this person increase his/ser FTP? I mean, TTE should be around 60min, if more than this, it’s becuase FTP is a bit low, or, a FTP bump is iminent.
I understand the concept (idea or goal) to “push the curve” to the right by alonging the TTE, but keep pushing it at 1x90 or something like that is useful?
