Man I want a No 22 bike so bad
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Lugged bikes are gorgeous, but you get the long term problem of dissimilar materials.
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Fixing a seat stay is probably the easiest of fixes. Iām surprised those 5 didnāt get fixed every year.
That said, I could imagine that renters donāt treat bikes as nicely as owners. The trend towards spindly seat stays doesnāt help!
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It really isnātā¦for just a primer on the differences, you can listen to the recent episode of The Gravel Ride podcast with the new owner of Time bikes. He talks about the differences between their carbon process vs. most manufacturers. Very different process (now, whether the differences matter in terms of bikes is a different question).
I literally do composite work.
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Greatā¦Iāll happily defer to your expertise. So why do you feel that prepreg is the same as what comes out of resin transfer molding?
Yes, they both use a fiber and resin to create a structure, but my understanding has always been (going back a couple of decades now) that the two processes are used for different applications due to structural requirements.
Thatās not what I said at all.
They can be used in different applications for sure, and some perform better in others. The gist of what i a saying is that as you note, itās fiber and resin. Full stop. So people need to understand there is nothing inherently better or worse about using carbon for bikes, then a boat, or an airplane, or a car panel, or whatever you dream up. Now the specificity of what you are doing, and what your goals are and how you achieve it, that can vary wildly. People are conflating the two concepts. The main takeaway is that a properly engineered bike with last longer than any of us. Nothing about carbon is throwaway except scrimping on design and production, and budgetary constraints.
One note on pre preg, is usually itās only cost that precludes it. Thereās been several boats where you could choose wet layup, resin infused, or pre preg, with different levels of core material (foam, nomex etā¦), all you needed was more money!
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Does bamboo count as carbon fiber? It is fibrous and contains carbon.
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Trekās 300 Series Alpha aluminium Vs 500 Series OCLV Carbon.
Compare and contrast.
āāā-
ChatGPT:
Trekās 300 Series Alpha aluminum is known for its durability and affordability, making it a popular choice for entry to mid-level bikes. It offers good strength-to-weight ratio but may not be as lightweight or stiff as carbon fiber.
On the other hand, Trekās 500 Series OCLV Carbon is a higher-end material, known for its lightness, stiffness, and responsiveness. It provides excellent power transfer and vibration dampening, resulting in a smoother and more efficient ride compared to aluminum.
In summary, while both materials have their advantages, carbon fiber (500 Series OCLV) generally offers superior performance characteristics compared to aluminum (300 Series Alpha), albeit at a higher price point. Your choice may depend on your budget, riding preferences, and intended use.
āāā
So thatās just the summary of marketing schpiel, how does anyone then choose one over the other objectively?
I had a carbon gravel fork fail catastrophically on me. The fork was never involved in a crash or damaged in any way prior to the incident. I was lucky to walk away with only a concussion, knocked out tooth and scar on my upper lip. No carbon components ever again for me.
I know exactly zero people that have had carbon failures outside of full on crashes. Even with that I know people who crashed and broke themselves horrifically but their bike survived with barely a scratch (and ultrasound inspected to confirm).
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+1. The only people that have had trouble with carbon were those who bought early Chinese carbon components which should be in a stand alone category of its own called junk.
Having owned and raced 18 bikes since 1986. 13 have been carbon, 2 steel and 3 aluminum. Subjectively I think steel rides the nicest but, carbon races the best. My personal all time favorite mountain bike was my 1990 steel Ritchey P23. The worst mountain bike was an aluminum 2004 Specialized Epic. My all time favorite road bike was the 2005-6 carbon Scott CR1 SL. The worst was a 2014 carbon Felt AR.
- Thatās is clearly not accurate in total either.
Do I have to pull in a half dozen recalls on carbon bars and forks that happened in the last year or twoā¦ the ones from reputable companies with large S & T & C letters in their names? Recalls that came to light and hit a level of severity due to actual failures in use with associated injuries that make them more than relevant to the rider present.
Seriously, there is some odd allegiance that is surely clouding some perceptions around here. This N+1 stuff is important on a purely personal level, but hardly captures the breadth & width of the real BIG picture here.
I should have written: The only people I knew who had troubleā¦
This is a forum. itās mostly opinion. Thatās what makes it fun. Sometimes frustrating. Sometimes informative. But to shit on us who give our N+1? WTH?
OK, fair enoughā¦when you said ācomposite work is composite workā it gave the impression that there is very little, if any, difference between types of CF, IMO. āHey, itās all composite work!ā
Yupā¦agreed. But the devil is in the details, as well. Different types of fibers, resins, manufacturing processes, etc.
100% agreedā¦always grinds my salt when people make claims that carbon bikes are āplasticā or throwaway or even āfragileā. When designed and manufactured properly, carbon frames will long outlive their ownerās desire to own them.
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Itās not shitting on it. I am trying to point out that even though they matter to us more than anyone else, they fall short of telling the story for everyone else. That doesnāt invalidate a personās own experience, but sure doesnāt mean that same experience is shared universally either.
100% agree. However, itās way beyond the scope of any cycling forum to determine anything definitively. Yet, an opinion can start someone down a path of discovery to eventually gain useful actionable knowledge about XXX.
I guess I assume people understand that opinion (n+1) regarding bikes is not universal which is exactly why a forum works. IMO 
I would argue it is way too often the oppositeā¦a few people cite bad experiences with a product or service and it is extrapolated by many forum members as the ānormā re: that product or service.
Same on other forms of social mediaā¦āI saw on FB that Aunt Jenny had problems with thatā¦definitely donāt buy thatā, when all along Aunt Jenny doesnāt know how to read instructions.
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Yeah, I think we are in violent agreement, lol.
My main point really was pushing back against the notion of carbon as a material being throwaway, properly done it will outlast us all. I am definitely not saying all carbon bikes have been made this way though, thereās been some duds for sure.
Ironically I ride a custom steel bike myself as my main whip now, I sold my BMC Roadmachine to a friend. Really just wanted to mix it up, have something made just for me.
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