Yes, you are correct, mine is a bit out as well. I have feed it efforts, but they are lower than if I hammered a week of sprints outside.
they just need to be within 90 days of each other.
@oldandfast here is one I stumbled across, not even close to your workout but its 10 minutes of tempo, 5 min break, 2 x 4(3) min low z5
showing
- color coded 30-sec power
- dashed white line at 105% ftp
- blue line is relative vo2max
first 4-min interval was 107%, then 3-min rest, then second 4-min jobber was 109%
sorry, again it was above 105%, more significantly the higher surges driving up % vo2max (blue line) were from 30-sec power above 112% ftp. So not a great example, but closer to your 8x4(2) @ 105.
All that said, the vo2 kinetics show almost complete drop at 1-minute into the rest interval. So from a vo2 POV, dropping from 3-min to 2-min recoveries wouldnāt impact vo2 (itās more about how hard you go, because that drives oxygen demand in muscles).
From a lactate point-of-view, well, we canāt feel lactate and I have no interest in lactate testing. However we can feel associated rise in acidic Ph in the legs. When pushing at 104-108% during a well paced 20-minute test, I donāt feel a burn in the legs until about 12-15 minutes into the effort. Just a swag on one of the fatigue mechanisms in the legs (leg Ph).
1 Like
Iām a little lost as to what to do now. I did a Sweetspot progression out to 100min at 90%. Then did a 3 week block of VO2. My plan was to transition to a Threshold block before some race prep. But life got in the way. I had a recovery week after the VO2 block, but was still feeling kind of beat down so I did another 3-4 days of easy riding and Z2 hoping to feel better. But I ended up getting really sick with a sinus infection and productive chest infection. To add on to that, I thought I was out of the woods but got crippling back spasms that took me off the bike.
All of this to say itās been 3 weeks since Iāve done any real intensity. Itās been so frustrating mentally as I had 5 days off from work and planned to do a little mini block of training but between the back and the illness, Iāve been off the bike. I had 2 hours total on the bike all of last week, and it was just easy riding to test out the back. The back is feeling good and Iām feeling better health wise, so now Iām looking at the crater in my training schedule and wondering what to do.
I have an Omnium April 12-14, and my original A race weekend May 25-27. I had 4 weeks of Threshold progression planned, then a recovery week moving into some race prep before the May race. What would you guys prioritize now? Race prep or Threshold? I feel like doing a solid Threshold block will benefit me more, but then Iām afraid of being flat for my races (crits).
If racing isnāt your job, then Iād prioritize your health and happiness first, then your long-term growth and development second, and only THEN your race prep in third place.
2 Likes
What if this is dependent on me racing? Iām being slightly facetious but training and racing makes me happy. Training and racing keeps me healthy. So me being off the bike has been terrible for my mental and physical health. And Iāve been in a bad mood for the past week because I havenāt been able to ride. I get your sentiment. But riding, training, and racing (which includes trying to do well) IS prioritizing my health and happiness. There are very few things in life that make me happy like racing.
3 Likes
Thatās a very fair point. Where I suggest a change is focusing on process over product. Youāve been in a bad mood because youāve been sick, you havenāt been able to ride. Those are outcomes and you cannot fully control what happens in your life.
If/when you can convince yourself that you draw happiness from your EFFORT and CARE to train, ride, and race as well as you can, and NOT from the results that arise when those efforts meet outside realities, you will find it easier toā¦
-
Try to prevent being sick because thatās in your control. Sleep, eat, rest, work, and play in a way that will complement or improve your ability to ride and race.
-
Accept that shit happens when you get sick or injured ā and you WILL get sick or injured at some point, obviously ā and then do the best you can to recover and heal. Draw happiness from taking the best care of yourself possible, from minimizing the consequences of being sick, including from being patient and not rushing the recovery which can lead to a relapse and more problems.
And so on. Focus on what you control. Draw happiness from that. Accept the things you cannot change, fight hard for those things you CAN and be happy with how well you fight, not whether you win or lose any given bout.
3 Likes
Iām kind of in the same boat, I strained my serratus anterior and canāt put weight on my arm.
I was starting out my base season with hitting 20-30 minute all time PRs. Now I canāt do anything but rest and hope I can ride in the next month.
Like @AgingCannon mentioned; I would listen to his advice. The end of the day I donāt get paid to ride, sure it brings me a shit ton of happiness and clears my mind of life stress. Racing gives me a chance to push my limits which also brings me joy. I canāt do any of that except goto work and try to rest my arm.
Itās depressing to be honest but trying to push through injury or Illness will only make my recovery longer.
So letās push the thought experiment further along then. WHY does training and racing bring me joy and happiness? Pushing my limits has been mentioned. Growing. Setting myself goals, making promises to myself, then reaching those goals and keeping those promises. All of that, great. Also, simply showing (myself) that I have the discipline to do hard things and put in the time/effort/sacrifice. And of course, competing.
So if I canāt ride for a month, how do I still do ALL of that? Maybe this is a time to do great core work that Iāve set aside. Maybe I focus on a little weight loss. Maybe this is the time to do some serious leg work in the gym.
Because life is about balance, maybe this is the time to plan a long weekend with my spouse and take that fun ādate tripā to Niagara Falls. Maybe this is the time I get that certification for work that I havenāt had time to do.
Maybe a million things. But X happened, and the key question is ALWAYS: what am I going to do about it, or in response to it? How do I gain from it as much as possible? What does this allow me to do that improves my life (and brings me happiness) as much as possible?
And then, one of the key things that happens is that I draw mental health and happiness from knowing that Iām doing EVERYTHING I can to have the best life I can, including training and racing as best I can, in the context of whatever life throws at me.
Satisfaction and joy have to come from the things that are in my control.
1 Like
I like your attitude! Iām currently working on some certifications for my career. Now is a great time to spend my workout time to learn more.
Itās also the first time Iāve taken more than a week off of working out in a long time. So it might be a good thing in the long run!
In complement to the philosophical conversation weāve already started, my answer to this specific question would be that itās great to ask for othersā advice as youāre doing to make a better choice. But whatever advice you get, make the best choice you can with the information available to you then move on and execute on that choice with all youāve got.
In the end, whatever choice you make will have pros and cons. But you can live with the consequences easily as long as you know and remember that youāre not perfect, and you made the best choice you could under the circumstances.
Even if youāre āflatā for the races, you fight as hard as you can given your condition on that day and you can then be happy with the work/effort/care/thought you put into the whole enchilada.
How you place in the rankings really does not matter. What matters is that you put in your best, on all fronts, for that moment.
1 Like
The moment you start thinking like that, you can MAKE IT be a good thing by the choices you make. 
1 Like
I mean, I thank you for the philosophical advice. But for me, it does matter where I place. I want to win. I wish I had the zen or just the attitude to accept my results and be happy with giving my best. But I donāt. I want to win. And I will do everything I can to win. Iām a results driven person. The upside (if there is one) of not getting the results I want is that itāll drive me to improve and get better and put in the work to get a better result in the future.
Looking at past races, I donāt remember if āI gave it my allā in the sense that Iām not looking back fondly on a bad result knowing I did the best I could; Iāll look back at the result and wonder if I could have done better or done something different. I know it works for some people and it seems to work for you. Maybe Iām a little envious of that. But it just doesnāt do it for me. Thatās not to say I judge myself on my race results. Iām not going to be on my deathbed mad that I got 4th place in a local crit instead of winning. But every race I enter I go in with the plan to win, or at least get a result that I think is achievable.
And back to my original question which was just about training, I think Iām going to do a Threshold progression then a short race prep block to get ready for my A race. I think that will help me in the long run for the races I have later in the season.
3 Likes
āIf we all thought alike, everyone would be after my wife.ā
āUnknown
God bless you, and I wish you many, many wins and great results!
1 Like
I like training for results and wanting to win, isnāt that the reason why some of us train so much. Iām hurt now and if I had an event in a month or 2, Iād have to lower my expectations. Even then, thereās almost always someone thatās faster, no matter how hard i train.
I like setting process, performance and outcome goals. If I donāt get the outcome goal, I have small victories for hitting performance and process goals.
The end of the day all this training and racing doesnāt pay my bills, so maybe thatās why my attitude is what it is.
I do my best and forget the rest, results are great goals but arenāt my be all end all.
I also enjoy the process more than the destination, placing all that stress on myself to win sounds miserable.
1 Like
Speaking of everyone doing it differently. Iād probably try to ride myself into fitness like some TdF rider. hit it really hard tailored to the omnium, with a peak at the omnium ( making the omnium the final workouts at the end of my hard hitting block) take an easy z2 week for consolidation, then threshold ā vo2, taper to the A race.
But Iām a weirdo. Not to get all Filo Soff Ickalā¦ but I guess Iād just figure, hey if the whole thing is scuppered why not try to swing for the fences. At least if I fail Iāll have a good laugh and learn something. Butā¦If I do well, if I win. That would be Epic.
Iām all about the Epic.
3 Likes
End of progression. Just one threshold workout per week + high tempo on a long ride. Started low, progressed fast. Done at little below what I think is my ftp. Riding about 16hrs per week.
#1 30min
#2 30min + 15min
3# 50min
Got one tempo workout left, did 2hrs @ 86%ish on a 4 hour ride not sure how to progress from there, maybe Iāll do another threshold workout.
3 Likes
Last spring I ended my threshold progression with 60min at 350W. After that I did a couple months of race preparation and racing (anaerobic stuff, 40/20s etc) and afterwards now in summer mostly easy endurance riding (190-210W normalized power rides, volume 10-15h per week). Basically no vo2max work or other hard aerobic stuff.
Last week I did my first FTP + TTE test after that 60min effort in the spring. To my big surprise, I managed 35min at 362W, so a 12W increase! Coach said it was due to being more rested and maybe thatās true, but I was still quite surprised ā I thought that if anything, I would be down 10 watts! And this is with a CTL never exceeding 75, lol.
Continuing now with sweetspot progression instead of threshold, first workout was 30min + 35min at 330W. Itās fun to come back to this extensive TTE stuff, I like riding fast and doing heavy carb loading to keep up with the kilojoules burned haha.
@hubba Nice effort! How did you continue progress from there?
3 Likes
Good watts for 75 CTL, whatās your weight?
I got sick during rest week after the block. Exact same thing happened during spring, my threshold blocks are cursed.
Just getting back to training trying to rebuild my strength again.
Right now my weight is around 84-85kg, my goal is to drop to around 80kg for next season. 190cm tall.
CTL is a funny thing, it might be because I do endurance rides so easy but Iāve always struggled with getting high TSS in. Mostly my weekly TSS is in the 500-650 range, then I occasionally take a lighter week with lower TSS, and consequently the CTL never really increases much past 70. I have no idea how people manage to have a CTL of above 100 with 10-15h of riding, I know I would burn out if I were to try to increase the intensity of my endurance rides or add an extra hard workout a week, for example. But I know most of my clubmates have much higher CTL from group rides etc, while I ride mostly alone, so that might be a factor.
Damn, getting sick is the downside of these harder training blocks. Iāve had the same problem after vo2max blocks. I hope that youāll regain fitness soon.
3 Likes
It is my time to bring this thread back in to attention (itās been a while).
This thread has been a great resource for planning a good threshold workout progression;
- Start with workout threshold TiZ of about 80% of TTE and progress to 100-120% of TTE
- Interval length at least 10, but quickly 15min+ preferably
- Aim for 96-99% of FTP
Now here is where I could use some input, I feel I miss a piece of the puzzle. What total weekly TiZ should I aim for?
Say I ride about 10 to 12hrs a week. My goal is long sustained climbing, non-competitve granfondo riding with a lot of time spend at around 85% of FTP.
During my Threshold build block, before going in to sweetspot/tempo build towards the event, what would be a good weekly threshold TiZ if I do two Threshold Workouts?
Is it just as simple as doing two similar workouts (so for example the first week 2 workouts of aprox. 40min TiZ for a total of 80min TiZ)? And build that to two similar workouts of about 60-70min TiZ for about 130min at the end of the build?