Last Saturday I did an almost marathon length training run. I knew they’d be food at the halfway point, my local parkrun, so I took no supplies, not even water. (Was reading Born to Run at the time so full of the romance of the Tarahumara).
At this stop I had two cups of tea, a glass of milk, two chunks of cake and two flapjacks. Then I ran home again.
It went remarkably well. Was zooming along towards the end.
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I drink every Tuesday with a bunch of sub 3 marathoners, and other club runners, great guys - my given nick name is ‘Slim’…
I’m not taking their nutrition advice though, for example; Sunday, London marathon, 2h42, recovery ten pints a short walk from the finish line, Tuesday 1hr at <4:30/km, followed by recovery jugs of ale…
I train about twice as much (swim bike run) as they do, but they’ve been runners all their lives. Maybe I should quit solid food, about the only thing I haven’t tried in the last ten years. Pale ales and gels, what could go wrong. 
Lots of calories in a pint 
(I rarely drink btw)
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In unrelated news a friend mine is in Medoc (France) at the moment. I don’t think he’s got my marathon references yet…
I did a half last year inspired by the Medoc. It was scorching hot and we were pouring water over ourselves as well as drinking wine at each of the 6 aid stations. It was brilliant. Could’nt feel any discomfort by the end, although was an hour slower than normal 
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My Lord, well done sir!
I’ve been agitating for the club to instate the end of season beer mile but for a drinking club with a running problem they are sadly not biting.
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Your rough estimates align with the usual 45-60g of carbs per hour. I’d suggest pushing carb consumption during the marathon a little higher, closer to 60g/hour and see how that goes. If your metabolic fitness is lower, you might find even more (70+) is better.
So easy to get lost doing quick math using kJ and kcal - I’m not the only one making mistakes on the quick & dirty calc. You’ve got a rough estimate now, ready for refinement by testing it out on the road
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So on the fuel, 45g of carbs generates 45x16.7 = 751.5kJ or are we arguing that’s 188kJ?
I’m saying 45g of carbs generates 750kJs, and that allows you to do 190kJs of work. (They body is roughly 25% efficient)
I believe others are talking about the ratio you burn carbs and fat, which is relevant, but you are not replacing all energy burned if you’re only eating 45g of carbs. 45g/CHO may be enough to get you through a 3hr race without bonking, because you burn fat as well, I just wanted to clarify what I’m saying.
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I think we’re all on the same page now, time will only tell if this helps my long run deficiencies.
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Tried my new spikes on tonight. They felt really light and precise.
The session was 400m repeats with 200m walking recoveries. I ran 7 of these at 71-72 seconds per 400m. I need to be able to run 1500m at this pace to claim my clubs vet50 record. I think it’s a stretch but possible with training.
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Hi all.
I have recently taken up running as another way to keep fit. I am still cycling (1-2 hours a week), but purely for pleasure with no goals, plans or events, just for enjoyment.
4 weeks into regular running. I can comfortably run a 29 minute 5k so opted to following a beginner 10k running plan via Runna (app).
I have a question regarding easy runs, including running slow and keeping HR low(ish).
Yesterday, my plan called for an Easy’ run with pace no higher than 6:55/km. I completed my usual warm up of dynamic stretches and a 10 minute walk into jog and then started the 5k run.
I find it difficult to run slow and keep HR low on my runs and seem to naturally run at around 5:20 - 5:30/km pace, but this leads to a high HR and high RPE.
I have been trying to improve the easy run pace and last night managed to run 5km with the following splits;
1km - 6:29/km
2km - 6:29/km
3km - 6:32/km
4km - 6:40/km
5km - 6:31/km
I’m very happy with the consistent pacing, but it was faster than the prescribed pace from Runna. I felt like if I ran any slower than 6:40, it would just be a fast walk?
The pace/km felt good and I did not feel like I was exerting myself, and would say it was an RPE of 4-5. However, I could not control my HR spiking up to 175-180 and bordering between zone 4 to 5. Overall for the 5km my highest HR was 185bpm and average was 174bpm.
My question is, is it normal for HR to be this high even on easy and low RPE runs? Is to just a case of I’m not ‘trained’ enough and my HR on runs will eventually be more controlled once I progress my training?
Also does anyone have any tips on running slow?
A couple questions:
-
Do you know your true max HR? Have you tested it somehow?
-
How are you measuring your HR? If you are using an optical wrist sensor, those are notorious for getting ‘cadence lock’ and not showing your actual HR.
My 2cents is that its probably best to just go by RPE for pacing. Running based on RPE will keep you from overtraining and you’ll still get plenty of gains. And as a recreational runner, its more fun to just get out and run than it is to micromanage staying in the ‘correct’ zone.
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But what information did you give Runna for it to give you this pace. They normal want you to enter a recent PR or race result.
How much faster than a 29min 5km can you run?
Very, very general but easy runs are typical 90sec to 2min slower than 5km pace.
The Runna pace sounds correct.
Sounds like you are running way too hard for your easy runs to me.
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Thanks for the reply Ben.
In regards to the questions,
- It’s been many years since testing my max HR so can’t give an accurate figure currently.
However, if I give everything I have in a bike sprint etc, I’ll see between 198-205 hr via a Garmin chest strap.
(I’ve always seen high HR when measured over the years when doing hard efforts cycling, so I’ve never been to worried seeing her as high as 210bpm cos a chest strap)
- I use a Garmin chest strap for HR. Recently replaced batteries too.
I appreciate your advice and I agree, maybe it’s beneficial to just ruin to rpe and get some base running miles and fitness in before getting to deep into data and metrics.
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Thanks for the reply.
I recently ran a 5k at 29:02 and I knew I’d worked for it but felt there was still some in the tank. Based on this I only my 5k time as 29:02 into Runna. I’ve not attempted and all out 5k run yet as I don’t want to overdo it. I’m only 4 weeks into regular consistent running and although I’ve got the base fitness from cycling, I haven’t got any running miles in the kegs really so don’t want to risk and injuries or stains from going too fast or pushing myself too quick.
I agree, on hr numbers it appears I’m running too hard, but the rpe of yesterdays 5k at AVG 6:32/km felt like a 4 and as though I was hardly working, but he said otherwise. I felt I’d I tried run slower to lower the pace anymore I’d be walking (if that makes sense).
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There is a floor for pace where technic breaks down or a fast walking pace is the same as running. It normally around 13 - 14 min per mile, dependent on height / stride length and cadence.
There is no shame in run/walking easy runs if needed.
I would suggest trying to run about 6:50 per km no matter how easy it feels and see what the HR does. You should then be able to smash the interval sessions.
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Assuming your HR reading is decently accurate (I wear a Garmin Forerunner 945, vivoactiv before that, both decently accurate IMO), it takes a while of your HR to adjust when trying to do zone 2 running. So feeling like you have to run very slow in order to be in that HR zone is normal. My current zone 2 pace is around 8:30 min/mile. When I started zone 2 running (not when I started running, because I was just running for a while before, until learning about zone 2), I had to run at 10-11 min/mile paces, which felt extremely slow, almost fast walking as you say. But eventually the pace should pick up while keeping in zone 2 HR.
When comparing heart rate during runs and rides, we are not comparing appples to apples. Therefore, your understanding of heart rate as it relates to cycling doesn’t relfect your work capacity for running.
I think this tells us enough to know that going off RPE is a lot more helpful in your case.
Keep up the good work 
.
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I’ve been away w/a family vacation followed by a 2nd bout of Covid. Oddly, my first bout was the same time last year. Thankfully, this time has been mild.
Everyone cycling now that it’s summer or are there still some starting to prepare for a fall marathon block?
I was going to cycle. Instead I hired a running coach who’s been scheduling me for 6 days running every week. It’s been fun though