Thanks everyone for the help with choosing a trainer. I’m really happy with my purchase and there are no unwelcome surprises with the equipment, apart from the trainer reading way lower than my Stages PM. That one’s waiting on a response from Wahoo support and may not be a problem with the trainer.
Power matching works really well if you follow the advice given by mcneese.chad two posts back. It also helps if you drop the gears way down low so the flywheel isn’t spinning too fast.
IMHO the flywheel spinning at high speed makes the ride feel nothing like riding my bike. I even tried the 50 tooth cog and would be comfortable using it if the chain wasn’t at a crazy angle.
The low gears make the sprints in short power build feel very similar to what I’m used to while riding on trails. It feels like hitting a wall and that is often the case when riding outdoors and trying to clear obstacles and very step sections.
The downside is that you tend to get messy as the power drops back off and you start to over power/over spin the trainer as it tries to drop the watts. It’s a little like hitting a downhill section while in a low gear which gives you no control. Training wise, it’s not an issue as the sprints are the important bit.
This morning I settled on 5th gear for Joe Devel+1 with a 32 up front. Nice and quiet with a good chain line and great response time on the short sprints. Really happy with the setup and the fact my wife didn’t even know I was on the bike until she walked into the loungeroom.
Wheel off and near silent is worth every dollar in that regard.
For the record my trainer is reading approximately 40watts higher than the stages when I did a little testing yesterday. 124watts vs 165watts over 1min holding a steady cadence.
After doing a little research I’d expect to lose 4 to 5% in the drive train. The belt and bearing in the Kickr? At least the same again I’d expect.
I’ll report back when I get a response from Wahoo.
The fix for this is to shift into a harder gear. So if you have a sprint at say 500 watts and it drops to 100 watts after the sprint, simply shift into a harder gear so you’re not spinning out. Stay in the harder gear until the power is no longer climbing, then shift back 1 cog at at a time until you reach your desired cog.
@MI-XC
Thanks for that. I’ll give it a try next workout.
Wahoo is trying to narrow down the discrepancy in power between the Stages and the Kickr.
I tried recording another 2x 1 minute intervals without power match and was pushing 290 watts average on the Stages while the Kickr was showing 251 watts average. It’s a pretty consistant 40 watts at two different wattages so far.
Really odd.
Can a SRAM NX 12 cassette be mounted up to the 2017 KICKR? I actually went through the expense of swapping out my XX1 eagle shifter and RD to the NX 11 sp so I could run my MTB on the trainer over the winter. Could I have simply swapped out the cassette and kept with the XX1 eagle shifter and RD?
I found the XX1 eagle shifter and RD combo didn’t play well with a 11 sp cassette. I could find 2 or 3 gears that work “okay” in ERG mode, but I like to use resistance mode on most of my TR rides…
Adjusting the belt tension on my Kickr bought the difference between it and my stages down. what are your spin down times like on the Kickr? mine were up the upper end of recommended (version 1 kickr).
@Quency
Don’t quote me on it, but from memory they were in the 11 to 12 second range. Brake value kept coming up as 95. I can’t remember if that had a decimal in front of it.
I really thought Wahoo support would’ve started off with that sort of question. They seem more interested in what apps I’m using and how many devices might be causing interference.
The power readings on the Kickr are ridiculous.
All I have to do is spin the fly wheel to see where the 40 watts is going. Belt tension and stressed bearings would be the obvious culprit.
I’ll be calling the shop tomorrow to organise a solution.
Really dissapointing.
Called/emailed the shop. They were very attentive. Snaps to Pushys in Aus. Always good to deal with.
Still no response from the Wahoo distributor. No response from Wahoo US either.
I’ve since searched for my issue and it’s pretty obvious what the problem is. Why anyone would design a belt driven unit without a sprung/auto tensioner is beyond me.
Any answer on my reported brake values and spin down times would be nice. Not hard really.
Tension values for the belt?
Maybe it’s best to do my 1.5 hr SPB workout tomorrow in a high gear and watch it pop?
Not a single recommendation to stop using the unit yet.
Anyway, I was quite happy using the unit yesterday afternoon in the 32 chain ring and 32 cassette. 1:1. That seemed closest to riding outdoors to me. (Power matched of course).
My over spinning was barely an issue the second time around. I simply backed off the power at the 1 second mark. I know it’s not perfect ,but I don’t feel 1 sec has an effect on the workout goals.
The Kickr has good response times and I would be more than happy to train with it. The bike fits on easily enough and I can’t really fault the brains behind the unit.
The build quality and final product is something I would not recommend to friends. So much so that I’m considering asking for a refund and looking at other options.
I understand that this is a base model, but the core of the unit should be solid enough for my amateur ambitions. If I didn’t have a power meter this unit would be a $1200AUD paperweight.
Three of the stickers flew off yesterday. It’s not really good enough.
I’m in a similar situation. I’ve bought kick core recently with sram nx eagle 12 speed cassette. The cassette fits smoothly on a trainer but a setup with the deraillleur was not so clean. A noise is different on the smallest ring and I can feel some vibrations. The biggest 50cogs ring does not sounds well too. But this is not a big issue. The biggest problem is with the sensors. Power values fluctuates highly even if you keep the same gear and cadence. I used to use Garmin Edge 520 for monitoring my workouts and here is the problem. Power values differ significantly on my Garmin and wahoo app although both comming from the same sensor from kick core. Here is the video: - YouTube Wahoo says thats normal but I dont believe. I noticed also speed values dropouts - those also comming from Kickr. Very dissapointed too. What have you chosen finally?
@Bartek_Wachocki
I will do my best here to remain fair and not deter others that may not receive a faulty unit. My complaint is being dealt with quickly and I really enjoyed the responsiveness of the unit.
Then again, I’m getting a refund and will wait until I find a unit that will hold up long term.
Aside from that, what you describe sounds like fine adjustment settings. Try using the barrel adjuster on the gear cable to fine tune and reduce noise. I always have to adjust slightly depending on the wheel set or trainer.
Another thing to try is cleaning everything. I was testing different chain lubes and ended up going back to my original dry lube. The oils made things sound quiet, but they build up and don’t like to compress.
Slight differences in the chain line will help with the drivetrain noise. Nothing fixes shot bearings or crazy power readings.
I had a quick look at the video again. Maybe try recording a whole workout. Those figures look to represent the various power smoothing features.
Maybe a settings issue.
Do an hour of relatively steady state. Look at the final figures.
If they suck. Who knows. Test against other power sources.
Thanks. Very appreciate your support. I made 40min workout for comparison. Avg power was like 112wat vs 108wat. So looking at a ride averages seems reasonable. But it was a single shot only. I did not repeat this test. I must do it again to get more representative results. Anyway I do not feel ok when pushing hard, when accelerate the figures do not refelct my efforts. I need the figures I can fully trust.
I am pushing Wahoo to investigate it further. Waiting for answer from them. I asked Garmin yeasturday. Hope to get their point of view too. Hmm. Have you got Garmin or any other computer tracking power to compare? I am intreasted in is this a failure of my unit or is this tipical for all the kick cores?
Hi Bartek, I tried loads of different devices to record power. Every device/app seems to record things a little differently. I’m pretty sure it’s a software thing and the raw data is consistant.
If I was you, I’d try and find someone with a power meter so you can test the unit against that. Run a similar 40 min effort but record the power readout from the Core and PM on different devices.
My Core was reading roughly 40 watts low when I did this. +/- 25% accuracy on one attempt.
If it’s outside the specs, send it back.
Thanks Rosscopeco! I definitely agree. I made more tests in the mean time and get some findings. First I noticed, there are 2 options to add kickr core sensor to Garmin. As an indoor trainer or as a power meter. I tried the power meter one and here comes the light. Power looks like to be smoother and more realistic. There are no +/-30wat power jumps when keep a monotony ride. Just +/-3 up to 10wats. This is definitely a progress. I noticed two more things. Wahoo app uses bluetooth to connect to kick core (ant+ not supported by my phone) whilst Garmin usues ant+ to connect. It means when the app and Garmin work in parallel Wahoo uses both bluetooth and ant+ in the same time. This causing interferences and affect an output a little bit. I observed higher fluctuations. So I dropped the wahoo app let Garmin work alone and noticed further signs of improvments. Now the output on wahoo and garmin are closer to each other. There is a diff but not as important as it was before. Garmin is reading data per 1 sek (this can be setup i settings), wahoo doing this even faster. So maybe this is an explanation. Thanks for support. Good luck with your Core
Chad, they sure did but they couldn’t make it any more convoluted if they tried!
So the TA 12x 142 Tacx kit is , like you said, 142mm wide. But it says 12x142/148- What they fail to tell you in ANY explanation or even in the axle kit directions is that the stock 5-6mm spacer that comes with the trainer on the QR is added to the non drive side of the 12x142 axle kit and that corrects it to 148. The 5mm spacer slides on to the trainer threaded male portion of the non drive side first then the big lug that sticks out, and supports the bike at the dropout, threads on standard.
In their directions they show the 5mm spacer now but it’s hard to find.
Go to Tacx/support/axle compatibility And you will see the spacer from the standard fitting kit placed in with the 12x142/148 .
They just need to tell you it comes with the trainer , or just add the spacer to the 12x142/148 kit.
I think the 12x142/48 boost kit is now being shipped with the Neo trainers but I don’t know that for sure.
