Was thinking this or the 3 gorges ride which there is a bit of cross over Strava
3 Gorges could be less âscenicâ compared to west head
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True, do love Westhead
@daviddiviny wouldnât they be less dedicated given that you can ride all year round outside? 
Shame you wonât be here for Tour de Brisbane April 5. Thatâs a UCI Gran Fondo ride!
Amen to that! Itâs my A race for 2020 
I suspect the watts are probably similar, but the kg side of the equation likely favours the Aussies.
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Saturday âColuzziâ ride is the only way to find out. 
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Hi all,
Definitely up for the group ride. Iâm out here in sydney for 6 months. Due to lack of trainer and therefore trainerroad out here I may be pretty slow but Iâll do my best to keep up!
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Iâd definitely love a deep-dive into the TR data by region! It would be fascinating to know things like:
- Proportion of male/female users by region
- w/kg (male and female) by region
- flat watts by region
- seasonal training volume fluctuation (as in - do some regions have more or less fluctuation?)
- training volume generally by region
- plan compliance or workout success rate
It would be fascinating! Imagine all the unmerited conclusions we could come to!
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Can someone explain the handicap races for me? We have a question about it on the podcast tomorrow.
As far as I understand the groups start in waves from slowest to fastest.
Questions:
- What happens when A grade catches B grade? Can a B grade rider jump on the A grade peloton or breakaway?
- Do they ever give a small group of riders a head start on the field? I think I saw a video where they gave four A grade riders a 2 minute start on the A grade field.
- What happens if a B grade rider stays away from the A grade and maintains the gap. Do they âwinâ?
Whatâs the point of handicap racing? Just getting everyone on the course at once so itâs over quicker?
@Nate_Pearson so HC work like this
D Grade say Cat 4 start on scratch at 10am (example) C Grade start at 1005 B 1015 A Grade at 1020.
Times may vary depending on numbers.
When a higher Cat catches yes the lower grade can hang on. Also have no obligation to do any work.
And yes again if WT Pros turn up or NRS which is our elite Neo Pro riders they may give A Grade a few mins on them. So you can have Pro A Grade and A Grade like Cat 1 vs P1? if you like.
HC arenât liked by few and loved by some. HC are often won by lower grades because of time gaps and courses. Road racing in Aus is becoming harder with permits and non road closures. HC Gives all Grades a even chance. Where a mass start the lower grades can win their Cat but no chance at Overall.
Hope this helps
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I can attest to that. If itâs a short and hilly circuit, there is a far more chance for someone from a lower grade to win. Oatley Park course in Sydney comes to mind.
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State Handicap 101:
- Riders are graded by the state (via club provided information)
- Depending on who has signed up for the race (and the overall numbers) different groupings of those riders will form Bunch 1 through 10.
- Bunch 10 starts first, and each group progressively gets set off until Bunch 1 leaves, which can be up to 45 mins after bunch 10
- The objective is to work together as a group to stay away from those behind and catch those in front.
- If a group catches, you may latch on. Traditional tactics dictate however that the higher grades will string out and hammer it during the pass to ensure this doesnât happen.
- If you have stayed away, have made all the catches and are entering the latter parts of the race, all traditional racing tactics can begin and the handicap teamwork gets thrown out the window.
We race like this to reduce the chance of constant bunch sprints, and itâs kind of cool for slower riders to be racing our national elite or world tour level riders.
Tuesday night Heffron Handicap 101:
- No state grading. It is self selected. 3 grades, A, B, C.
- Depending on who turns up, grading is adjusted slightly. C grade at Heffron always does 1 less lap and gets a headstart on A. B starts somewhere in between.
- A must pass B once and C grade twice to be caught up.
- You can latch on as the higher grade comes through for the final time, and not before.
- There is generally teamwork before the catch but it is limited to the stronger riders in each group pushing to stay away.
- Bunch sprints happen 95% of the time.
The point of a Tuesday night handicap is similar to the state handicaps. The only difference is that the Tuesday allows for lower grade success stories and because it happens every week you see riders get stronger over the course of the season.
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Correct - there are some races in Australia that will have as many as 7 or 8 groups. 8 is typically slowest and âscratchâ or âblockâ depending on the race, is typically fastest.
In a handicap race, absolutely you can TRY to jump onto scratch or block (A grade) but just know that when scratch passes you, they will be pumping it to try and ensure that you donât get on as their assumption is that you are essentially no good to them given that you will probably just sit on for the rest of the race.
No - I have never heard of some individuals within the same group getting a head start on their group.
No - if a B grade rider can âhangâ with scratch or block (A grade) until the line and assuming scratch (A grade) has passed all other grades then the B grader would need to out sprint the scratch riders (A graders) in order to win. There are usually no prizes for being B or C grade first over the line if they are overtaken by scratch, usually it is first past the post.
Personally I do not like handicap races but they do have their place. There is a race in Australia called âThe Wallâ where ~ 8 groups go out over a road racing course which is ~25kmâs per lap. The point is that all teams have to work together in order to get to that finish line first. If the slower teams dont work together and âpick upâ some better riders from the groups they catch then scratch will definitely catch them. If scratch (the fastest group) does not work together then they will not get to the front of the race. There are often tactics where some groups âallowâ some of the faster groups to catch them if their team is not working together and they donât have strong riders in order to increase their chances of being at the finish. Of course the real magic sits with the handicapper who really needs to ensure they have the delayed start times correct to ensure a great race. Sometimes they get this wrong and scratch ends up taking the win easily, other times block has to work really hard to get to the front of the raceâŚ
Hope that helps.
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I really like handicap racing because itâs one race with all grades together. The ideal handicap would have everyone arriving at the finish together. More often there are catches earlier on and depending on when the catch happens you may be able to hang on to the passing group or you might just be dropped.
In the last HC race I did I was in the second group to go with the bunch in front of us having 5 mins or so lead and the one behind about the same. This was a 100km race. We caught the bunch in front at around 20km and many of them stayed with us. We were then caught from behind at around 50km and the pace picked up, I lasted a little longer on that group before getting dropped. In the early groups there is a balance between going really hard to stay away and conserving some energy so that you could try to sit in with the next group that catches you. It all adds another dimension to racing.
Steve
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@Nate_Pearson
whatâs above isnât quite answering your question
if a B grade rider or the (b grade field) are not caught by A grade then a B grade rider will indeed Win the race, this actually happened at tuesday night heffron 2 weeks ago. In that case then they also have prizes for the rest of the podium, the first A grader, the first C grader and first female across the line.
(FYI I was that first C grader⌠8th overall, and now promoted to B grade)
Handicap racing gives the race a very different dynamic as within each group A/B/C you are (or at least can be) working as a team to stay away from the chasing group and/or catch the group/s in front of you until some time in when it becomes everyone/everyteam for themselves again depending on how the race turns outâŚ
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Not always though. In some races âBlockâ riders start just before âScratchâ.
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Yes - you are correct! My bad I updated original postâŚthanks for the correction!
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Chopping block!