Thx Chad. The wheels I have difficulty with are road wheels, and do have a rim strip in them - a white rim strip that looks different than the ones you linked to.
This rim strip however is not sufficient to seal the spoke holes (the edge of some spoke holes are very close to the edge of the rim), and I need to add a layer of tape underneath to seal the spoke holes.
The white rim strip also degrades over time as it needs to be removed every time I change tires - a lot less ideal than just taping a rim (eg in three years I have not needed to change the rim tape on my DT Swiss wheels).
Sorry for hijacking the thread with my rant about my bontrager wheels!
Note: The bontrager jackalope wheels on my fatbike just use tape. Have had no problems with them.
Given you said it was very hard to get the tire on, my first thought is perhaps you shifted the tubeless tap around on the rim and slightly exposed a spoke hole.
The other likely possibility is at the valve core. First, it may not be tight enough. It can feel snug at first, but then you pump the tire up and get some play. Second, how you put the hole in the tape seems to matter (clean slice with a knife vs a blunt “puncture”). I often see a buildup of dried latex around the valve/tape/rim interface when I remove a tubeless tire after several months. Sometime I’ll add a small extra 2" piece of tape at the valve just to build in a little more redundancy.
Although it’s possible the rim/bead is leaking, that stuff usually seals up well after a few days. I had a well-dented rim from cx, and it would take a few days before I could trust it to hold air. Mostly it was a matter of waiting to build up a layer of dried latex at the bad spots on the rim.
That leads me to wonder if you have the wrong strip width? Properly fitted ones I have used cover the rim bed from bead hook to bead hook with no appreciable gap.
This also seems strange. I have never needed to remove a Bonty strip to change tires. Once installed, they can live there for tubeless and tubed use, in my experience.
I do agree, that they are effectively destroyed if/when removed from the tire, and should not be reused. I just question the need to remove them in the first place.
Thx Chad. My rim strip looks different than the ones pictured - even the white ones. I’ll buy a pair of these strips for my next go around. Appreciate the advice
Some time ago I said that road tubeless was a lot of trouble for not too much benefit. At the time many assured me that it was not much trouble at all. The contents in this thread lead me to believe otherwise…my own experiences were similar. Probably now that more people are actually trying it we’re all starting to commiserate.
Maybe it’s worth considering, again, unless you ride through tribulus terrestris patches or race across bad roads where pinch flats are a certainty…just slap a latex tube in and go. You get all the rolling resistance benefits with none of the headache. And it’s cheaper.
You keep stating that for every n=1 experience for every issue you argue against, but we have to realize that most forums mostly contain the problems of a product. As many have stated above, there is too many variances introduced with different combinations of products. This is why we need a standard (which I’m happy to see the new schwables pro ones follow). If every tire and rim maker can now just get on board.
The tape @DaveWh is using sounds like the tube strip that comes with Bontrager wheels if you are using a tube.
I’ve heard too many stories of people making there own “rim tape” with duck/gorilla tape or other things. These same folks then complain that tubeless doesn’t work. If you don’t use the correct stuff, you are asking for issues. Even with the correct tape, the # of wraps varies depending on rim/tire combo (because there wasn’t a standard). I once went an entire year going through probably 20 tubes. Been 4 years since switching to tubeless and I just had to put my first tube in about a month ago and I have also never been stranded.
Also, the tape isn’t just to cover the spoke holes. Make sure you are using a rim tape that is a wide enough to cover wall to wall on the rim bed (brake track to brake track). The tape helps create the right gap for the bead of the tire to fit in snuggly when the bead is set. Too much tape it won’t set the bead, too little and it will leak and possible come out when riding under low pressures.
In case it’s not clear - I’m a big fan of tubeless. On my mountain bike and fatbike, I’ve had zero issues with setup or while riding the bikes.
On my road/gravel bike, the setup is a pain compared to my other two bikes, but I know how to get it done and I’ve had zero issues while riding. Given I ride gravel quite a lot, there is no way I’d use tubes.
I should also add that I use a floor pump. If I had a compressor, I likely wouldn’t have these issues with my road/gravel bike.
My apologies @DaveWh. The “complain” part was just meant in general. It sounds like you were trying to use the proper stuff and not trying to game the system.
Well, as @mcneese.chad pointed out, the rim strip that came with the wheels may not be the best rim strip for these wheels when setting up tubeless. I bought a pair of the right rim strips earlier today, and will pop them in once I decommission my road/gravel bike for the winter
I think it’s clear that the issues with tubeless increase notably when tire size decreases (and the air pressures increase proportionally).
Tubeless is the defacto standard in MTB with a few holdouts and edge cases. I hear of a rare fit-up issue once in a while, but they are darned easy compared to the bad ones below.
Tubeless in gravel and CX are quite common and just about as easy and reliable as the MTB side. The tire size (about half as wide) and higher pressure (about double) can lead to more setup issues, but they are generally good.
Getting into the road world with even smaller tires and higher pressure than G-CX, and we see more consistent issues. The higher pressure can lead to sealant failures (some brands are working on road specific formulas to address this), and I think the fit-up is more problematic unless you have the “right” match in many cases.
I have helped some friends setup roadie tubeless.
One was a full afternoon… 4-letter word flinging effort, as I was forced to use every trick in the book. Once done, they are dead reliable. But I don’t envy doing a new tire on that setup in the future.
To add, the “fixer” in this case was using a tie-down strap around the circumference of the tire, to compress it against the rim as tight as possible, prior to hitting the high pressure (through the tubeless valve stem with the core removed), and even with that it took 2 passes of air, but it worked.
Another was reasonably easy and quick like my gravel setups.
Chatting with the tech’s in my shop is a parallel experience. The ones that work are a dream, and the ones that don’t make us angry people.
+1 for improving the sealants. Us rodies are having to use sealants made for MTB at low pressures like @mcneese.chad stated and at high pressure don’t seal as good as they would with MTB. Can’t wait for high pressure specific sealant.
I too have had hard times setting up tubeless, mainly when first setting up a new combination of wheel/tire. But after figuring out the correct setup, it has been easy as long as I stick to that setup. Biggest thing is figuring out how to tape correctly and making sure you have a tubeless wheel and tire. If I ever switch off the schwable pro ones or change my wheels, I’ll most likely have to go through that fun again.
CX is where tubeless makes least sense. Gravel, ok that makes sense for reasons of durability and higher pressure.
It’s not the tyre width thats the direct issue, its a pressure/volume thing. MTB tyres are relatively easy to set up because they have large air volume. Road, because they have high pressure. CX has neither of these things, so the chances of burping a tyre increase massively. Combine that with a lack of suppleness due to stiff sidewalls and you have a very unreliable, low performing set up. Hence tubulars being the system of choice, and many people still using clinchers with innertubes (see all the challenge clinchers as your local race)
Sure, choose whichever set up you like but recognise that it might not be optimal because you’re more likely to suffer issues in the long run when you’ve used sealant to plug little gaps that shouldn’t be there in the first place.
I don’t know anyone who runs tubes in cx, if they have a choice. Tubeless or tubs, if you can affort/be bothered with the extra hassle. Tubeless makes sense because you don’t want to puncture, but run low pressures. Burping isn’t really that common, but hitting hidden roots and rocks with sub-20 psi is. You need the low pressure for grip, you just can’t go that low with tubes. And there’s often brambles and other thorny plants on the course, at least in local races.
This is more than n=1, of course, as you argue through the rest of your paragraph…it’s an industry issue: they make the problems we deal with. And also, let’s just tally up what ‘n’ is here: DaveWh, splash, Critwannabe, onemanpeloton, cartsman…look, I’m no math major but that’s more than 1, correct?
Is it just that people who have problems complain the loudest? Well, I think that does a disservice to people who are struggling with tubeless…but let’s test your hypothesis.
Where are all the threads started by people who are frustrated by putting a tube in their tire and inflating it?
