I’d really love to try Berd Spokes.
It’s going to be interesting to see how longevity of the nylon ends up, and if the cost comes down a bit.
It would have been a great option to get my Onyx hub wheels back down to XC weight. It was just a bit cost prohibitive at the time.
I only know of one shop that’s not so local that used to have a threader. Wow. That does go back a few years. I’m sure it was done, but even a hand spoke treading machine isn’t inexpensive. Just maintaining the threads so they don’t damage the nipples I would think would be important. Spoke threaders are a dying bread I’d bet (One local shop had a small hand threading machine, and I think they tossed it), like the huge ski prep machines. (Someone was offering one at a local ski shop that was going out of business (the only one in the area), but no one wanted it because of the cost, weight, electric demand, dust, and people can do the same thing without the expense with hand tools. Not quite as good, but ‘good enough’ 
)
I’ve done builds a few different ways, and the actual ‘Spoke Prep’ wasn’t any different than anything else. The one idea that intrigued me was penetrating loctite, but if someone uses the wrong stuff, you’ll be cutting those spokes…
I have heard of people being kind of ‘weird’ about ‘phantom spoke loosening’, and how could someone prove it. And with disc brakes becoming to prevalent, wheels don’t have to be very accurately trued anymore. How many people actually true their disc brake wheels? I do, but I need the practice. shrug
Well, I am going to partially blame this thread. I have a truing stand and a dishing gauge on the way, and have already been paging through this.
I’m building a new set of wheels for my rim brake road bike. I’m looking at doing two things differently than the previous sets I’ve built, and wanted to see what others think.
DT only sell nipple washers with a taco shape to them, for specific rims. I’m not using those rims. So I’m wondering about using Stans nipple washers or maybe some Sapin ones.
I’m building the wheels to be reasonable on weight, probably around 1600 grams, maybe 1650, but really the driver is a wider rim so that my rim brake calipers can be set wider and allow a 28mm tire to be fitted without deflating the tire to get the wheel in.
So, experience with Squrox (alloy) nipples and also nipple washers?
Thanks,
Have occasionally used Squorx, but almost exclusively use Sapim Double Square, which is the same thing and has the same benefits. Highly recommended - you can also be a bit more lax with the spoke length as you don’t have to hit exactly the end of the nipple as per recommendation with standard ones.
I generally use Sapim washers on anything carbon. Building a driver out of an old spoke helps with these, you can load the spoke/washer and feed it from underneath which minimises the chance of dropping a washer into the rim by mistake.
Thanks, I’m going to look for washers and squrox.
I was looking at a $50 DT driver that has an adjustable middle that lets your set the spokes all the same. Sounds nice to be able to dial them all in 2 mm recessed, and then build from there.
I think washers are only needed when it’s specified by the rim manufacturer… and with regards to the Squrox nipples… keep in mind that some stuff is just developed to make (partial) machine building more easy (straight pull, funky nipples, …)
I have build my last to sets with sapim spokes (cx ray for road and d-light for mtb) and brass polyax sapim nipples (they have a bit more rounded head for a better spoke / nipple line).
I have build the MTB wheels with this nipple driver:
Unfortunately I could not use it on my road wheels, because I had the great idea to get a set of rims with a closed rim bed. Ideal for running tubeless on the road (no hassle with leaking rim tape etc), but a bit harder to build (more work, inserting the nippels with a magnet into all the holes, and getting even tension). But worth it, tubeless has been great !
Looks like Alex from GCN is doing a wheel building series. First episode is below.
Squrox nipples: The last three sets I built I used them and really like them. I got a deal on the driver and used it to finish the tensioning of one set. It’s a little awkward but gets easier over time and helps to not lose a nipple in a deep rim. I’ve, so far, never had a problem using their nipples and their driver. Their Pro Locks are great IMO.
Washers: I only use them when required. Adding something that isn’t required to a system like a wheel which is under tension seems ill advised. You could potentially introduce a larger amount of force in the area around the holes than was anticipated by the manufacturer. (After initial lacing I also use a bright flashlight to verify all the washers are setup right before I start tensioning, Just In Case… The DT hoops I’ve used that require washers have all come with washers) Adding washers when not specifically required just seems like adding potential badness down the line. I’ve only had one wheel set have hole damage, and they were over 15 years old. Probably just too old and ridden hard. In that case, I doubt that washers would have made that much of a positive difference. Use at your own risk.
Learned an annoying lesson this week. Went to retension a wheelset I built with aluminum nipples. I am now rebuilding that wheelset. So many rounded nipples. Brass nipples now only.
That doesn’t sound right/normal. How long has it been since they were built, what prep did you use in building, and what nipples and spoke key are you using?
it depends a bit on the circumstances… when you ride a lot in bad weather conditions… alu nippels can corrode and get stuck very easy.
brass nipples weigh about 1 gram / piece, while aluminum ones weigh only about ⅓ gram.
so on a road set with 2x24 spokes, the difference is ~ 32 grams…
Sapim double butted spokes and aluminum nipples. I used oil for spoke prep, which has served me very well in the past. Park tool spoke key. It wasn’t until retensioning that the issue came up; some spokes were really tight and nipples just rounded really easily.
This bike has definitely been ridden in extremely wet PNW weather, I think it was a combination of that and the aluminum nipples and the light spoke prep. I think for this rebuild I’m going to use brass nipples, and something thicker than the light oil I used previously.
Interestingly, I have a beefier wheelset for my enduro bike (the one I’m rebuilding is a lightweight XC wheel set) that I built three years ago with same spokes, nipples, and peel method and they’ve been pretty much bomb proof. My theory is that the lighter wheelset is more reliant on spokes for strength, and that is resulting in much more stress on the nipples and spokes.
Sapim nipples as well? My point was going to be that they are made of higher grade alloy and treated with anti corrosion prep from the factory, but if that’s what you used…
I know right? First time I’ve had issues with them. Just rebuilt last night with the brass, so hopefully that works better. Super annoying to go to do a quick retension and realize I have wwwaayyy more work to do instead.
