Why Riding Slower Makes You Faster [GCN's latest video] Thoughts?

[Bbt67]

@Crosshair et al.

You might find this thread more relevant to your thoughts and posts.

Sweet Spot Base versus Traditional Base plans

After riding recreationally for over a dozen years, I decided I wanted to get serious about getting faster. So, at the beginning of 2016, I started my first TrainerRoad Traditional Base plan. A year later I had increased my FTP by 150 percent! In the following year, things did not go as well, and I saw a decline in my performance. In August of that year, I found myself in the hospital being treated for pulmonary emboli. I guess that would explain the drop in performance. It was my second bout w…

[mailman]

Or a new thread. Train by kj’s or TSS

[bfrostieone]

I don’t have much to add to this thread either. However, from personal experience (this summer), I PR’d in a Sprint (age group win), Olympic (3rd in age group) and 70.3 triathlon. My training consisted of almost all upper zone 2. I averaged around 9 hours/week with 3 swims, 3 bikes and 3 runs per week. I was only given intensity approximately once every 10 days. My FTP came down, but my watts at upper zone 2 heart rate went way up (over 25 watts). I questioned the training all the way through up to race day, but it worked for me.

[BenB]

It does seem somewhat relevant to discuss the total work done in a training methodology when discussing its effectiveness. I disagree with crosshair about which burns more, but I could be wrong which is why we’re discussing it.

Are you saying that total kJs doesn’t matter for a persons training plan?

[WindWarrior]

it matters for fueling.

Aerobic adaptations are primarily driven by duration, not intensity.

[adrian_r]

Look this is basic physics. There is not a single valid argument for Z2 and sweetspot burning the same amount of calories per time unit.

1 watt is literally 1joule/second

So if you set upper Z2 equal to 75% of FTP and sweetspot to say 90% of FTP, it is straight forward to say what the difference in energy produced is: .9/.75 * 100 = 120%

If your argument is that because it is so much easier from a physiological and mental standpoint to rack up more calories doing Z2. Then I agree. You just have to spend at least 20% more time doing it before you are in the black!

[Dknotty]

@BenB

It does seem somewhat relevant to discuss the total work done in a training methodology when discussing its effectiveness. I disagree with crosshair about which burns more, but I could be wrong which is why we’re discussing it.

Are you saying that total kJs doesn’t matter for a persons training plan?

Not going to get dragged into your pointless arguments which have no bearing on the video and its primary message.

[Helvellyn]

I’m just popping in to beg people to learn the difference between the words “moot” and “mute”.

[runs away]

[WindWarrior]

lol I pulled my fingers off the keyboard on that one LOL

[Helvellyn]

I never once looked at a metaphorical hand grenade and didn’t think “I’m gonna pull the pin out of that and roll it on in”

[SarahLaverty]

Yep! See this thread for updates:
Feature Request: Time limit options in plan builder. Sorry that I can’t give a more specific ETA on this feature!

With regard to customising the difficulty of Workouts for specific days of the week, you can do that already when you are going through Plan Builder, or by editing individual training blocks after the Training Plan is on your Calendar .

Through Plan Builder:
When you get to the Schedule section of Plan Builder, you can customise your training days and, subsequently the difficulty of Workouts by dragging and dropping the scheduled rides (with the indicated difficulty level) to different days.

Once your Plan is already on your Calendar:
You can edit individual blocks.

1. Select the block of training that you’d like to edit the default Workout days.
   

   

2. You can drag and drop to adjust the default Workout days.
   

   

[Pbase]

@SarahLaverty

When you get to the Schedule section of Plan Builder, you can customise your training days and, subsequently the difficulty of Workouts by dragging and dropping the scheduled rides (with the indicated difficulty level) to different days.

Thanks for the reply, but this isn’t what we’re asking for.

In this example, you have 3 days of the week with “difficult” workouts, which is too much intensity for many of us who are aging. We want a plan with the same number of days, but less intensity, so the ability to make 2 of those “difficult” workouts “moderate” or “easy”. If you then combine that with the ability to make workouts longer or shorter, you can still get to a Masters/Seniors type plan with high volume/progressive TSS, but less intensity.

Hope that makes sense, and again, thanks for the reply!

[freoishome]

Great link. Thanks.

I get the impression many posters here didn’t listen to the whole interview, as much of the commentary misses the points made.

Inigo isn’t just saying do lots of Z2, he is saying don’t do the mid zones, but do do the high zones, and if a sprinter the very high zones.

Don’t mix within a zone based workout, so when doing a Z2 ride, don’t work hard against a head wind, up an incline, chasing a set of light, as it takes 30 minutes for your metabolism to recover from that effort. DON"T DO IT!

If you are time poor, eg, do 3x 60-90minute Z2 rides and one HIIT workout per week.

This is pure polarised periodisation. And, sadly, it is nothing like the Polarised training plans that TR has provided.

[Hampstenfan]

@freoishome

And, sadly, it is nothing like the Polarised training plans that TR has provided.

Ah, yes. And it feels like that’s compounded by AT in the LV POL EXP plans…

[Spiky]

Cycling beginner here, after all these readings, if I want to try more Z2 ride volume with a polarized approach, in such case, what would be the best high intensity to pair with?

With a LV SSB base plan, it’s has a VO2MAX, Threshold, and a SSB workout as default, in such case, shall I skip the SSB one since I falls in between Z2/Z4 mostly?

[tshortt]

@redlude97

Mix them up in a periodized way. Two z2(one long if you can) and a SS to start the season for about 6 weeks. Then swap out the SS for threshold, then about 6 weeks out from your first important race or event start doing vo2. If youre far enough out do two complete cycles

Solid advice for riders at any level. Very common prescription for a reason.

@Spiky This is called “funneling”. Much debate around the details of how and if and when to carry out periodization like this. Despite that, you could do worse.

A good rule of thumb to start is you should figure out intensity sessions that you can achieve with still a little left in the tank if you had to do another interval.

If you aren’t able to do a solid high zone 2 / low tempo two days after a hard day, then you went too hard.

With soreness, only ride endurance or off the bike. Use sleep and walking up and down stairs to gauge recovery.

[wake]

@Pbase

In this example, you have 3 days of the week with “difficult” workouts, which is too much intensity for many of us who are aging. We want a plan with the same number of days, but less intensity, so the ability to make 2 of those “difficult” workouts “moderate” or “easy”. If you then combine that with the ability to make workouts longer or shorter, you can still get to a Masters/Seniors type plan with high volume/progressive TSS, but less intensity.

Check out the polarized plans. That’s what I’ve switched to, for exactly the reason you mention. I wanted one Intensity workout per week, and then as much endurance base as I could fit.

I’ve set up my schedule this way:

• Tuesday morning longer trainer ride (2 hours Z2/endurance)
• Thursday night shorter trainer ride (1 hour Z2)
• Saturday morning outdoors MTB ride (including a decent approximation of mid-range intervals (tethering 4x4 minutes around threshold/VO2 max). It’s not perfect, but I’ve found some consistent climbs I can use for the intervals, followed by some technical slight descents that I can use off the interval…

[Spiky]

To be very naive here, may I ask regarding this advice, so SSB works as a transition pairing with Z2, then threshold is the real pair as polarized approach?

And VO2MAX sharpen up fitness for event?

I guess it’s won’t be simple as I assumed, but as a beginner , just try to get the concept.

I have 10 hours to train per week, so I can do , 3 long Z2 to 8 hr, and 1 SSB, and 1 threshold with no planned event right?

Also, this shall be changed after I decide to move to build phase I guess which I haven’t yet start my research.

Thanks again

[freoishome]

Paul Laursen whose research has specialised in HIIT training for cyclists says that even the Traditional VO2 max sessions of more than a minute, are not as beneficial as once thought. Instead do what TR refers to Needle VO@max sessions, ie, 10,15,20, maybe 30sec on - with equal non active recovery in roughly 5 min sets 3-4m between sets. Hence in a 1 hr session you might do 90+ intervals. As he claims, after the set you don’t feel tied, if anything energised. Reason - with such short intervals the recovery is sufficient to remove the Lactate so there is no lactate build up.

Another interesting reference on You Tube is Professor David Bishop

[Bbt67]

Not sure if you intended to reply to me or not, I agree 100%, that is the side of the discussion I was on.