Same here. Spinning faster as the power required increases means that the change in muscular loading is minimised, which just seems sensible unless you’re seeking to ride at an especially high or low cadence for a specific reason.
Also, low cadence on recovery and low Z2 rides makes for a less sore bottom. Which is nice. 
Actually I’ve done more than 9 hours of Z2 this week, as extra ride squeezed in today.
10 hours 8 mins of Z2
23 mins of Z3
3 mins of Z4
I had Covid 19 till a couple of weeks ago. Thus stayed out of super high intensity and just been testing the waters with some Z4 end of this week. Everything is good, thus I’ll return to my training next week.
Great podcast by @empiricalcycling just dropped about zone 2 riding. Addressing most of the debates going on in this thread.
you mean endurance riding 
I saw that. That can’t be to far from FTP this early in the base season, right?
You mean because he’s from Boston?
They do mention LT1, later on.
Just started my base period this week. I will try the Z2, ISM, LT1, … approach.
Currently on a 80CTL value. Which is the equivalent of 7 days of 2 hour simple Z2 rides (60-65%FTP).
That would mean 14 hours of this Z2 to start.
But I did a test of an hour at a heartrate of 128bpm (75%-80%LTHR) and that gave me 199W. I will try to incorporate these rides as Z2+ rides. I also tested my LT1 with a Alpha1 approach and that gave me 126bpm and 196W.
So my goal is to do my longer Z2 rides at 60-65% of FTP (170W±). And start with the Z2+ rides of 1hour and build a progression in time for those rides. I will see how this will go. Maybe every 7 or 10days a do a zwift race, so not to loose that much top level. But building my aerobic engine is my first goal now.
From 2023 I will start with some muscular endurance workouts also, low cadence tempo intervals.
Feel free to comment or advice ;-). I also play with the idea of buying a lactate meter to do some home lactate testing myself…
Sounds like a robust plan to me and not too far off what I am doing.
Due to time limitations (not amount of time I can train overall but dedicated slots I have available) I am doing a mix of 70-75% FTP 2hr z2 rides (expect this is z2+/LT1/ISM type work in reality) and then longer 3hr+ z2 rides where possible (65%ish FTP). I am doing a Zwift Race each week to keep some intensity stim and this plays out as a double day with z2 in the morning. I am also trying to incorporate another double day where I can for some more z2 work to increase overall time on the bike/ volume. Currently at about 16hrs p/w.
I am now into the 4th week of this approach and progressing well I think…
Great video but not connecting what the video content has to do with the title or thumbnail “it’s a waste of time” (in regards to volume I am assuming). They were literally on a 4-ish hour ride with 45 min of bonus time just a few weeks after a break. Volume “dropped” to 30-ish hours a week and was heading to training camp.
Yeah, it’s a drop compared to the “pros ride all day” thing, but as he said in the video the stages of grand tours are shortening as well. They are simply training for the event. Is BIG volume training dead? Is it a waste of time? I guess if 25-30 hours with intensity is “low volume” to you than yes?
Yeah I figured… I was just responding to the video in general 
The ride slow video probably got a lot of clicks so probably trying to boost the analytics for sure.
My interpretation of the podcast is basically this:
So if you have less time and ample recovery then higher intensity might be smarter.
Yes that is the flip-side of the conclusion. If you can make time, then that is obviously better, with regards to Aerobic Capacity or Endurance that is.
However, I do think I hear them say something different then e.g. ISM in that if you have 3x2hr available, then you don’t need to do those below LT1 even if your goal is to improve aerobic capacity.
I heard the same thing. “Intensity as a substitute or shortcut” (or whatever) is exactly the opposite of what I heard. (bonus: reminder of the meaning and usage of “first order effect”. 
)
Perhaps more nuanced (and maybe the source of confusion) is that I also heard that “all that intensity–if you can recover from it—won’t hurt your aerobic fitness” (paraphrasing). IOW, everyone who wants to slavishly adhere to a narrow range of low intensity is chasing a unicorn.
Everything metabolically from FTP down leads to same adaptations.
To oversimplify a bit: it’s endurance and threshold. The most important word there being and. Not “or”, not “in place of”, not “better not do it”, not…anyway.
Peter Attia - is this the interview where he says he was in ketosis and eating 600g or carbs a day?
as has been discussed in the ISM thread, the zone system than ISM uses is not the same as coggan. Zone 2 for him is above base line lactate levels, ranging from 0.3 to 0.8 above, depending on which interview you listen to.
That’s mid zone 3 for me, having measured lactate on myself and others for years. It’s certainly not easy. It’s tempo.
Also, for a better description of ISM training I recommend the Ben Day interview on that triathlon show.
From everyone I’ve lactate tested over the years using 4 minute steps, 0.3 - 0.5 mmol + rise over base lactate would have put them in zone 3.
My experiences FWIW.
Yeah, that’s what I got.
For me this podcast answered a lot of questions that I was seeking answers for.
My take was key sessions are important and your endurance riding around those sessions is also very important. However, endurance riding needs to be easy enough as to not jeopardise recovery between the key sessions.
I think the other big point ISM and Seiler are making is that our bodies don’t have these distinct boundaries, but once you push them into “fight or flight” mode, like when you go over Zone 2, whether that’s SS or VO2, that’s now an “intense” workout, and you might as well go even harder.
Seems to me, with all that’s come to light in the past couple of years, training has actually been simplified. You will get the fastest by doing the most, hardest (?) training you can. The rest is just implementation. You’ll be constrained by how well you recover and how much time you have. I think 80/20 is an observed ratio because the people doing the most training settle at that ratio naturally.
Well, that was fun. What do we do with ourselves now?