What’s the view from TR when returning from outdoor only back to TR in the autumn with regards to progression levels? All mine had fallen back to 1.0 after a few months away but I’ve now done a 2 hour endurance ride inside at the difficulty I wanted to achieve and it has now set a realistic endurance PL. Should I do the same for sweet spot, vo2 max etc before starting my winter plan?
Hey there,
If you’re feeling confident in your fitness right now, you could probably find workouts in the zones you’re looking to train at around Workout Level 3.0-4.0.
That will give you a good starting point if you’ve already got some solid fitness and feel like Workout Level 1.0 is a bit too low.
From there, keep on following your plan/completing workouts, and Adaptive Training will get an accurate picture of what your fitness is like to get you dialed in. 
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Thanks, this is what I felt like was the correct way to proceed. I’ll go a touch conservative at the higher effort levels compared to what I was doing outside in order to not risk failing the workout. I’ve already done a ramp test to get my ftp correctly set.
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Man, I could not agree more on this!
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I left Trainerroad about 20 months ago due to waiting and waiting for months and months for unstructured rides to be included in AT. At the time it was yet another feature that sounded amazing but was announced too early and from what I’m reading here this is still not working as it was promised all that time ago!?
I was thinking about coming back and I presumed this would be working now but wow…its not and on top of that 2 x price increases plus more announced features that seem half-baked and like RL/GL and group rides/multi-sports/strength training that require some kind of nuance and work around to begin using them. It’s all too confusing…and I’m experienced at this!
I really hope Trainerroad can sort all this out and just get one thing working correctly before they announce it or the next “game changing” feature. Maybe then will I come back but for now there are far too many alternatives that offer as much or more for better value.
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My view is: WL was an awesome creation, really interesting, as long as you do the workouts (indoor or outdoor). Everything else isn’t being taken into account in this realm. They might be, and I think they are, for fatigue management, adaptive training, etc. But not for WL.
It also seems to me that is very hard, if not impossible at this point, to translate erratic efforts (unstructured rides) into the progression of your WL.
So, how can I be sure that adaptive training is “doing its thing” correctly if my unstructured ride isn’t being taken into account? I guess adaptive training will use the workout catalogue to suggest to me the best next workout. But, if my WL isn’t accurate. It’ll suggest a VO2 level 5, but I’m capable of doing a level 8. So…
TR response will be: ok, do the VO2 level 5 and rate it easy. Fine, but that’s not the idea. It should be your best next workout.
It feels confusing to me as well, and that’s the reason I don’t come back (yet). I might, though.
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Join seemed to me. I haven’t tried others so I can’t say.
Join worked pretty well when I used it, and it costs 1/3 for me as I’m in Canada. The lack of a long-term calendar might bother some, me included, but I understand that knowing your endurance ride 2 months in advance isn’t helpful.
We may have announced it too early, however software development is non-linear. All of us at TrainerRoad have a high standard for our work. We never want to ship sub-par products so we focus on building a specific experience and functionality for our athletes and ship when we reach that. This is in our athlete’s best interest.
Have you tried these features? Without the context for which they are being discussed, I understand why it can appear complicated from the outside. If you are curious, give them a try and let me know if you have any questions. Happy to clear up any confusion.
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I cancelled my sub about 20 months ago because I was waiting for the afore mentioned outside workouts/adaptive training to work as promised. I waited many months but finaly gave up. I’m astonished that nearly 2 years down the line it’s still no further along.
I came back to the forum to see if it was working as I was thinking about coming back if it was. But it isn’t.
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You only would use TrainerRoad to assess outside workouts for a PL?
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Not sure if you know, but RL/GL is based on WL v2 and it does take outdoor rides into account. In my experience, the fatigue management part is more important than gains/changes in PLs due to unstructured outdoor rides.
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Yeah, I know what you mean. Would be nice if Nate could give status updates here or in the podcast more regularly but to me it seems that the openness and enthusiasm of the past have vanished a bit (which is a pity).
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Good catch! Correct- they are related but separate, and Outside Workouts are considered by RLGL. Thanks for clarifying this @OreoCookie 
.
So glad you are finding it so beneficial. Thanks for sharing 
.
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That’s a good call. The group rides I tend to go on are too short or low-intensity to actively contribute to my levels, my outdoor workouts are TR, & I really don’t do a lot of racing (one or two a year). That just leaves my all-day adventures, & I’ve got a pretty good idea of the maximum power level I can hold depending upon the expected duration.
Question for @sarahlaverty then (& by the way thank you for the inside info 
) or others on the TR payroll, whilst we’re waiting for WLv2:
If I head out on an all-day solo adventure, or find myself solo on an audax because I decided to treat it like a training ride 
, following the usual recommendations: minimal coasting/stopping, keeping power under control on climbs etc, is it fair to match to a TR workout using non-coasting average power & non-coasting time rounded down to a quarter-hour block? Are there other metrics that could be beneficial in getting a ballpark idea of what an endurance ride is worth?
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It depends:
- if you want to get PL recognised, re-create your steady ride in TrainingPeaks, sync it to TrainerRoad and then mark it there as completed. As far as I can see, it makes sense only if you still want Adaptive Training to recommend you following endurance rides,
- but if you are fully on your own progression with Z2 rides, don’t bother – AI FTP detection does not depend on your PL
FWIW, here are PL estimates for various duration 60% FTP rides (this is where I live usually):
- 6h - PL6.2
- 7h - PL7.0
- 8h - PL7.7
- 9h - PL8.5
- 10h - PL9.2
- 11h - PL10.0
- 12h - PL10.7
→ basically PL0.8 per hour
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You’re so welcome!
We generally don’t recommend doing this because it’s too easy to miscommunicate information to the software.
I would advise you not to get preoccupied with bumping up your Progression Levels. Even if a Workout doesn’t impact your Progession Levels, it will still be considered by Red Light Green Light and it will be considered for your AI FTP detection result.
Your Progression Levels ensure your TrainerRoad workouts are prescribed at a precise intensity so as to meet the intentions of the Workouts and more broadly, your Traning Plan. When you manipulate the software in a way that is not intended, you interfere with this. For that reason, it’s best to let the specific prescribed TrainerRoad workouts inform your Progression Levels.
I want to be sure not to discourage you from riding outside though! There is lots to be gained: fitness and otherwise!
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Thank you. 
I would advise you not to get preoccupied with bumping up your Progression Levels.
Your Progression Levels ensure your TrainerRoad workouts are prescribed at a precise intensity so as to meet the intentions of the Workouts and more broadly, your Traning Plan.
I edited it as I understood you meant only a “bumping is PL” isn’t a concern.
Could you elaborate a little more on what is the relation of this? I think that is my issue. I don’t feel comfortable knowing that the PL used as a base for my workouts is not accurate, as it seems that my next workout/plan isn’t reflecting the correct status/fitness/ability.
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Hey! I’m not totally sure I understand your question. But let me try to do a better job of explaining what I mean to see if that helps.
At the moment, unstructured Outside Workouts won’t affect your Progression Levels. This is because we don’t have a really accurate way of quantifying the work you have done during them as it relates to time spent in specific zones and how that influences specific aspects of fitness (yet), at least in comparison to the carefully controlled TrainerRoad Workouts.
Therefore we don’t include unstructured Outside workouts in the calculation of your Progression Levels. This ensures we apply the principle of Progressive Overload in a very deliberate and precise way, that is not skewed by random inputs.
Does that make sense @AlexMartins?
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Yep, that part is fine.
I’ll try to give you an example so that it might be more precise.
One did a group ride randomly, a hard one, 50min TiZ FTP pretty consistent. My PL “understands” that I’m only level 2, so the workouts given to me are “easy”. Let’s say a 4x6 @ 97%. In this case, in order to have a progressive load, that person might need more than 4x6 @ 97%.
So, what I meant was, without considering what one did “unstructured”, how can I be sure that my workouts are accurate in relation to the level of fitness I have? And I know your first answer will be “Do the 4x6 97% and rate it easy, AI will catch up and adjust”.
Yes, but it might take 2, 3 weeks. Or, I might’ve made another hard effort again, and my plan will always be behind. No progressive overload.
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