My guess would be that in terms of effectiveness that would fall in the middle of the 2 groups.
I would also guess that the exact strategy becomes more relevant the better trained you are.
I don’t care if fat oxidation rates remain the same, what I want to know is: are there better / more / same adaptations happening with the different intensities.
Posted this article in a different topic, but guess it applies here as well:
No signaling = no adaptations right ?
Just heading out the door to work so only gave a quick read through of that article but does it need to be VO2 max efforts?
Was planning to do Traditional Base I, II and III low volume over the winter with the addition of one Threshold workout per week (4 workouts per week in total). Should this be VO2 Max instead of Threshold? Maybe there is no comparison between the effects of throwing in a VO2 Max once per week vs a Threshold workout per week.
I don’t know exactly what they did in the study, but what I would expect is that you want to be doing the entire range of intensities, but in the off-season not necessarily to exhaustion.
I am currently following a 10hr/week training program from Join and from what I have seen so far, it has me doing 3 workouts per week with blocks of low endurance at 60%-70% and high endurance at 70%-80%, and the other 2 workouts are also endurance with a few 5-10min tempo blocks in the middle on one day and 1 minute all-out or 30-15’s blocks the other day. Not much threshold work so far.
One part of a large puzzle.
What are you saying and what do you think the study is saying?
Ok for that study but they did an offseason of 7-8hours of Z2. What if you would to 12-15h of Z2 work in the offseason? Would the differences then be that visible comparing the HIIT group?
What I think the study is saying, is that if you are used to do your 2h endurance rides @ 60%, you won’t make any improvements / not stimulate your body enough when you are doing the same over and over again. So while fat ox rates doesn’t change between 60/75% (according to that pudmed study linked), maybe other mechanisms change between 60/75%.
"So from this perspective, it doesn’t appear to make too much difference whether you’re riding towards the top or bottom end of Z2. "
I’m having difficulties to believe the above is true an goes against the whole “progressive overload” basic principle.
Most likely doing more hours of Z2 is better than doing less hours of Z2. But I don’t see why it suddenly would be as good maintaining performance at higher intensities as spending time at those higher intensities.
So, the Traditional Base appears as the best option for off season, if am reading this correctly?
Depends what “best option” means to you 
In my experience:
- 1st + 2nd year: SSBHV, mostly Sweetspot, Z2 was more like filler: yes, FTP grew over base phase but I could hold it only for 30-40min + couple times lost motivation, likely symptom of some kind of hormonal imbalance or overachieving. Still, felt strong and could hold Z3 very long time.
- 3rd year: Trad Base HV: not much FTP gains but training was very consistent. When reached to build phase, FTP increased quite quickly and I was actually able to hold it longer. Still not full hour, hoping to get there in coming season or even this year; due injury in summer, I’m currently again in build phase (no real need, just to complete full base/build cycle)
1 Like
I just finished traditional base one mid vol, with additional Z2 rides, and I feel very happy about it. Some notes:
- (Unlike with previous SSB blocks) My compliance was 100% even though I did most of my rides outdoors. The only time I was forced to work out indoors was when it was raining heavily.
- When the weather was iffy, or the ground was wet, I just used my single speed bike with fenders, and although it doesn’t have a power meter, the steady state nature of Z2 means I could just ride by RPE and still get what I think was a proper workout.
- I’m lucky to have flat ground nearby where I can pedal out and backs without coasting. I have junk miles before and after my workout proper (commuting through the city) but I have time so that’s OK.
- I’m in the 2nd year of training, so my endurance is increasing noticeably.
- I have clip on aerobars. It’s good to alter the position on the bike every five minutes or so.
- My fitness has definitely not gone backwards. I’m convinced I still have a lot of upside potential during base.
- These are not easy workouts, especially on a single speed when I’m never quite in the right gear.
- I’m not afraid to throw in a short effort on the way home. I still recover just fine if the surges and sprints are kept short.
Onward and upward to Base 2…
2 Likes
I think the key here is that in your off season you can (and should) hit the different training zones… but your need to 100% recover from them before doing another one. And you should never “go to the well” at any time. It is important to not over do it too early or you’re fried come mid-season. One workout a week, a low key threshold and your weekend long ride is all you need to be prepared for the “real” training in the spring.
1 Like
I know you’ve likely addressed this in some of the many helpful posts you share. How are you defining and measuring your low intensity ride wattage improvements?
Indeed, that is also what I mean by not letting the higher intensity blocks be to exhaustion. These blocks are not even close to the limit. At least the tempo and threshold/ VO2max blocks are not to the limit. Very short intervals of 30s to 1 min can be much more all out.
1 Like
short answer - power @ upper end of zone2 HR
2 Likes
Good article! One thing I found interesting is that the benefits of Zone 2 riding begin at 2 hour. It can be less but would be more “maintenance rides.”
How does this effect the conversation regarding Zone 2 training for the “time crunched” athlete?
3 Likes
How long did they keep testing them for? Like, if it was a study started on November and ending in April, how were both groups in late September? I think we saw from MVDP/Pidcock that intensity in the off season can have you flying, but neither made it to the end of the season as a contender.
Good article! One thing I found interesting is that the benefits of Zone 2 riding begin at 2 hour. It can be less but would be more “maintenance rides.”
That’s interesting. Today I just did my first long zone 2 ride ever and it was like I hit a wall at the 2 hour mark! I was fueling throughout the ride, but at around 2 hours I felt like I was on my way to bonking. I’ve done 2 hour VO2 and threshold workouts (with rests between intervals), and haven’t felt like that before. Clearly a long zone 2 ride without rest does something to the human body.
2 Likes
Yep. I grew up in Belgium, just between the hilly Ardennes and the flat Flanders or Netherlands.
Hilly Ardennes always felt like “easy”, depending on how you pace it, and the flat rides without a minute of coasting were the most difficult.
1 Like
hey Stino, if you’re doing 15h weeks and feel recovered enough afterwards (maybe a little tired on Monday, but ready to go on Tuesday), then go for 20h! Enjoy the long rides, and just make sure you can rest up afterwards!
Good luck!
1 Like